[MPlayer-dev-eng] recursive make considered harmful

[Michael Niedermayer]

On Thu, Jun 05, 2008 at 10:25:44AM +0200, Diego Biurrun wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 05, 2008 at 03:48:45AM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 11:52:04PM +0200, Benjamin Zores wrote:
> > > Benjamin Zores a écrit :
> > > 
> > > > For sure, I do have more stuff to complain about on Diego's work than on 
> > > > yours for obvious reasons, I barely ever have seen a commit from you.
> > > > No, in fact, that's not true, looking at MAINTAINERS file, I do have
> > > > more stuff to complain about on files you maintain than on the one Diego 
> > > > does.
> > > 
> > > And just to sum up, lookign at MAINTAINERS file, you maintain:
> > > - XviD codec
> > >   => we use ffmpeg only and you probably never wrote any code from libxvid
> > > - vo_svga.c
> > >   => you did a rewrote of existing code
> > > - vo_xvmc.c
> > >   => copy/paste of vo_xv.c code, nothing's factorized, full of bugs
> > >      and crahes with libmenu (but you don't care about as no one ever
> > >      wrote in rules file that code had to work ...).
> > > 
> > > So you maintain 3 _really_ important files in MPlayer.
> > > 
> > > Also:
> > > # svn log -v > commits.txt
> > > # grep " iive " commits.txt  | wc -l
> > > 194
> > > # grep " ben " commits.txt  | wc -l
> > > 315
> > > # grep " diego " commits.txt  | wc -l
> > > 4840
> > > 
> > > Are you really sure you have any right to criticize him ?
> > > I certainly do not.
> > > The whole point is that your contribution is meaningless by comparison 
> > > to the pain you've caused.
> > 
> > Thats your oppinion and an insult, did iive insult you?
> 
> Benjamin's opinion is shared by many others (and not just me).  As

We know, the silent majority is always on diegos side ...



> Dominik said, Ivan is out of control.  He has contributed nothing but
> flames in a long time.  The little code he contributed over the years
> has multiple long-standing issues that do not get addressed.
> 
> It's very sad to have to say this, but indeed his positive contributions
> are overshadowed by the flaming, trolling and the obstructions he puts
> in everybody's way.
> 
> > I really think we should all try to return to a insult free form of
> > communication, flaming about technical parts is one thing but
> > honestly ...
> 
> It's interesting that you say that to all people except the main
> offender.

?
I said it to all involved, you, iive and ben at least, surely ben is least
involved


> 
> > calling fellow developers dog, frog, comparing them to sheep, and telling
> > them to "shut the hell up" is IMHO going too far.
> 
> Telling somebody who steps out of line repeatedly, trolls and seems
> incapable of civil communication to "shut up", even to "shut the hell
> up" is perfectly acceptable.

no it is not.


> 
> It's not like Ivan has responded to softer methods to get this point
> across in the past.  Unless people articulate their opinion about his
> behavior at some point he will keep believing he does nothing wrong.
> 
> > > However please not that if you intend to play this stupid game
> > > any longer and if ever Uoti's (or anyone else in fact) account is
> > > removed, than I'd like to vote for your own account removal (you can
> > > do the same for me, even if it is, I really do not fucking care).
> > 
> > Do you have any reasons beyond personal anger to ask for iives account
> > removal?
> 
> Is that a serious question?
> 
> Ivan is a destructive force in this project.  He is a troll, flames
> constantly, keeps other people from doing useful work, poisons the
> atmosphere and contributes nothing to offset this.

s/ivan/uoti/


> 
> He reverts other people's commits without prior notice, which threatens
> to incite commit wars.

You steped on iives personal property (XviD code in mplayer) he chased you
off, he went too far onto your property and you chased him back.
Both of you fuelled this fight equally. Neither has done anything to
deescalate it.
And its not a attack by one countered by mere defense by another. Its a
consensual fight by 2 stubborn angered people.

One who started and the other who instead of just defending his own
Went and attacked the others as well ...


> 
> He never accepts that a discussion has ended or that he has been
> overruled.

There never was a discussion, you even said that you prefer if it isnt
discussed which spelling is correct. You said you just want it consistant
even if wrong.
Well if you want your house and the neighbors painted in the same color
you have to repaint yours. You cannot repaint the neighbors, also you
cannot even force your neighbor to repaint yours. You want consistancy
so its yours to achive it within your property ...


> 
> You left Ivan out of NUT development yourself, because he was
> unreasonable.
> 
> Now you surely do not reserve the right to ask for account suspension
> just for you and not for Benjamin, do you?

Everyone can ask for account suspension, but there should be a reason
behind the request, personal anger is a weak reason.

[...]
-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

When the tyrant has disposed of foreign enemies by conquest or treaty, and
there is nothing more to fear from them, then he is always stirring up
some war or other, in order that the people may require a leader. -- Plato
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