[MPlayer-users] firewalls needed :)

[daniel carter]

D J Hawkey Jr wrote:

> You took the literal, and ignored the meaning. I meant no offense. I
> only meant that here - at least in my part of the country - we tend to
> treat others with respect.

What kind of respect is it to say.  "Well that might be the way you do things
in your country, but here we do it this way, and our way is the right way,
yours is wrong, and you need to change and do it our way"?

> You know what? Taking time away from coding to write docs ain't an extra
> thrown in 'cuz you're a sweet guy. It's part of the package! And yes, the
> MPlayer crew has written docs. Not terribly well organized docs, but it's
> there, and for the most part, complete.

No it is a bonus cause they're a bunch of sweet guys.  Someone doing something
on their own time, and giving it away for free, is free to do it any way they
want.  They don't owe anyone a complete package.

> You know what else? There's always gonna be the user who doesn't read
> them, or "get" them. You can't get around it. You and I got mplayer up
> and running with the docs; does that mean that everyone must then be at
> least as savvy as you and I, else they can just go away?

If they don't read the docs, then yes, they can just go away and read the
docs!!!!  No one is getting paid to hold their hands.

> Second, show me the last post from an MPlayer developer who came
> close to phrasing his reply as nicely as you paraphrased your professor's.
> They're rare.

Sure, can't help to be polite.

> Usually the reply is an insult, followed by an answer. I haven't seen any
> reply "teach" anything constructive.

I haven't seen any replies start with an insult.  But i've only been on the
list a few weeks.

> Were my projects to get the amount of questions MPlayer gets, especially
> with the docs, I might ask myself if they couldn't be better organised?

I guess part of the problem is the code is evolving at a rapid pace, 0.50 is 2
months old and so out of date.  Good comprehensive docs would be obsolete
before they were complete.

> > Microsofts developers aren't visibly courteous, helpful or modest.  The
> > just develop code.
>
> How do you know? Do you work with them? Play cards with them? If any of
> them publish OSS, I'll bet they're polite to their users.

Some of them are bound to be polite courteous card players, but not to the
users.  Apart from some small experiement MS recently did the developers never
interact with the users (the experiement was with WinCE i think, so even then,
they'd be interacting with other developers, not end users).  When you have
trouble installing Win98, and you call up MS support, do they put you through
to one of the core developers?  No, the developers would probably get pissed
off pretty quick if they were interrupted all the time with installation
problems.  There are call center guys to handle the calls, and document
writers to write the documentation....

> Ah, I see. "We're just a bunch of autistic coders, so code we will. We
> can't stand people, let alone society. Human relationships be damned".
> I seriously doubt that's the image the developers want to broadcast.
> Is that the image you want to broadcast about yourself to the world?

No, but if i get a kick out of writing code, it doesn't mean i want to be
answering the questions all the time, just because people are too lazy to read
docs.  Just cause i don't want to spoon feed lazy people doesn't imply i am
some sort of autistic recluse.

>  Why would anyone insult his client or customer?

Clients and customers?  Where are the customers?

> So, YOU tell ME why YOU couldn't respond to me without persecutorial
> bend?

Well to be honest, i'm sick of hearing in the news lately about all the
countries america has had a hand in fucking up and your response sounded to me
like it came from yet another american who believed their culture was superior
and that the rest of the world had better submit and do it their way or else.
"westernize" - ironic terminology given it's origin :p  Not that it's got much
to do with americans in general, the public genereally has no clue as to what
was going on, i would hope most of my american friends would be outraged if
they knew what their government was up to.

I'm just presenting a different perspective.  You are saying, if you are going
to develop a program that people might want to use, then you have to do it
this way, you have to put togeather a complete marketable package with top
notch user support mechanisms.
I'm saying if you write some code and give it away it doesn't require you to
do anything to support it.

If you want excellent support, then you go and buy a copy
mandrake/redhat/whatever.  If you want to live on the bleeding edge then you
don't expect the same level of support.