yes yes I know, disgusting, but for f--'s sake, it's a start. can someone who has a clue help me here and we can freeze the damn spec? (So I can present NUT in linuxtag...) - ods15
Hi,
length,string
Video 4,"MP4S" MPEG-4 Part 2 4,"H264" MPEG-4 Part 10
Audio 4,"vrbs" Xiph.org Vorbis 2,"\x00\x50" MP3
For gods sake, dont do that mess. 0050 for mp3.. Also first decide to use all-uppercase or all-lowercase, but dont mix it. And I would just stick to all fourcc (4bytes) for audio aswell. I know the format is flexible in that case, but better not to make it a mess. -- Alex Beregszaszi email: alex@fsn.hu Free Software Network cell: +36 70 3144424
On Fri, Apr 14, 2006 at 12:43:36PM +0200, Alex Beregszaszi wrote:
Hi,
length,string
Video 4,"MP4S" MPEG-4 Part 2 4,"H264" MPEG-4 Part 10
Audio 4,"vrbs" Xiph.org Vorbis 2,"\x00\x50" MP3
For gods sake, dont do that mess.
0050 for mp3..
Also first decide to use all-uppercase or all-lowercase, but dont mix it. And I would just stick to all fourcc (4bytes) for audio aswell. I know the format is flexible in that case, but better not to make it a mess.
no objection, whichever, feel free to send a new spec... BTW, Alex, if you have any other objection with the spec please speak now before we freeze... - ods15
Hi On Fri, Apr 14, 2006 at 12:43:36PM +0200, Alex Beregszaszi wrote:
Hi,
length,string
Video 4,"MP4S" MPEG-4 Part 2 4,"H264" MPEG-4 Part 10
Audio 4,"vrbs" Xiph.org Vorbis 2,"\x00\x50" MP3
For gods sake, dont do that mess.
0050 for mp3..
Also first decide to use all-uppercase or all-lowercase, but dont mix
agree
it. And I would just stick to all fourcc (4bytes) for audio aswell. I
agree and may i suggest to do mpeg audio/video more consistant? mpegX video "MXV",0 (M1V,M2V,M4V) mp3 "MP3",0 AC3 "AC3",0 H26X "H26X" and a generic suggestion that the file extension should be used as fourcc if theres a well known filename extension for the elementary stream and generic suggestion 2 if theres a well known avi fourcc then that should be used [...] -- Michael In the past you could go to a library and read, borrow or copy any book Today you'd get arrested for mere telling someone where the library is
On Fri, Apr 14, 2006 at 11:05:20PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
Hi
On Fri, Apr 14, 2006 at 12:43:36PM +0200, Alex Beregszaszi wrote:
Hi,
length,string
Video 4,"MP4S" MPEG-4 Part 2 4,"H264" MPEG-4 Part 10
Audio 4,"vrbs" Xiph.org Vorbis 2,"\x00\x50" MP3
For gods sake, dont do that mess.
0050 for mp3..
I agree, random numeric twocc's for audio are an abomination.
Also first decide to use all-uppercase or all-lowercase, but dont mix
agree
On occasion there may be a reason to choose a specific case, but cases should not be mixed just randomly for the hell of it, for sure. I would prefer lowercase but it's not a big deal, and if historic usage is DOS UPPERCASE LAMENESS then perhaps we should just use it.
it. And I would just stick to all fourcc (4bytes) for audio aswell. I
agree
Agree strongly.
and may i suggest to do mpeg audio/video more consistant?
mpegX video "MXV",0 (M1V,M2V,M4V) AC3 "AC3",0 H26X "H26X"
Looks good. What about h263+? :)
mp3 "MP3",0
And "MP2",0 "MP1",0 ...?
and a generic suggestion that the file extension should be used as fourcc if theres a well known filename extension for the elementary stream and generic suggestion 2 if theres a well known avi fourcc then that should be used
These seem reasonable. Can we clarify that the "well known avi fourcc" should refer to the compression format and not a specific implementation name or marketing crap? Rich
Hi On Sat, Apr 15, 2006 at 05:30:38PM -0400, Rich Felker wrote: [...]
and may i suggest to do mpeg audio/video more consistant?
mpegX video "MXV",0 (M1V,M2V,M4V) AC3 "AC3",0 H26X "H26X"
Looks good. What about h263+? :)
i feared such a question, as it requres us to decide about where to draw the line for profiles, later versions of a codec and so on what about 4:2:2 mpeg2?
mp3 "MP3",0
And "MP2",0 "MP1",0 ...?
and what about mpeg1-mp3 vs. mpeg2-mp3 IIRC there are a few differences
and a generic suggestion that the file extension should be used as fourcc if theres a well known filename extension for the elementary stream and generic suggestion 2 if theres a well known avi fourcc then that should be used
These seem reasonable. Can we clarify that the "well known avi fourcc" should refer to the compression format and not a specific implementation name or marketing crap?
yes [...] -- Michael In the past you could go to a library and read, borrow or copy any book Today you'd get arrested for mere telling someone where the library is
Michael Niedermayer <michaelni@gmx.at> writes:
Hi
On Sat, Apr 15, 2006 at 05:30:38PM -0400, Rich Felker wrote: [...]
and may i suggest to do mpeg audio/video more consistant?
mpegX video "MXV",0 (M1V,M2V,M4V) AC3 "AC3",0 H26X "H26X"
Looks good. What about h263+? :)
i feared such a question, as it requres us to decide about where to draw the line for profiles, later versions of a codec and so on what about 4:2:2 mpeg2?
Same spec document => same code, IMHO. Of course, there may be compelling reasons to make exceptions in individual cases. -- Måns Rullgård mru@inprovide.com
2006/4/18, Michael Niedermayer <michaelni@gmx.at>:
Hi
On Sat, Apr 15, 2006 at 05:30:38PM -0400, Rich Felker wrote: [...]
and may i suggest to do mpeg audio/video more consistant?
mpegX video "MXV",0 (M1V,M2V,M4V) AC3 "AC3",0 H26X "H26X"
Looks good. What about h263+? :)
i feared such a question, as it requres us to decide about where to draw the line for profiles, later versions of a codec and so on what about 4:2:2 mpeg2?
mp3 "MP3",0
And "MP2",0 "MP1",0 ...?
and what about mpeg1-mp3 vs. mpeg2-mp3 IIRC there are a few differences
and a generic suggestion that the file extension should be used as fourcc if theres a well known filename extension for the elementary stream and generic suggestion 2 if theres a well known avi fourcc then that should be used
These seem reasonable. Can we clarify that the "well known avi fourcc" should refer to the compression format and not a specific implementation name or marketing crap?
yes
[...]
I though we are going to ommit FourCC definition on purpose. We are either going to follow avi/MS fourcc, or follow the path of matroska - defining our own completely ridiculous reinventions. How about defining an syntax or allowing inclusion of as many aliases as possible? e.g. "ISO14496-2;MPEG-4;XviD;XVID;xvid;DX50;DIVX;FM40" This for sure will guarantee that any player could recognize the format :) we could add and more additional info in brakets. E.g. {XviD,XVID,xvid}(bs=130,ver=1.1.0).
On Fri, Apr 21, 2006 at 11:42:55AM +0300, Ivan Kalvachev wrote:
I though we are going to ommit FourCC definition on purpose. We are either going to follow avi/MS fourcc, or follow the path of matroska - defining our own completely ridiculous reinventions.
No, these are not the only two choices.
How about defining an syntax or allowing inclusion of as many aliases as possible? e.g.
"ISO14496-2;MPEG-4;XviD;XVID;xvid;DX50;DIVX;FM40"
This for sure will guarantee that any player could recognize the format :)
we could add and more additional info in brakets. E.g. {XviD,XVID,xvid}(bs=130,ver=1.1.0).
This looks like the ridiculous Matroska path to me.. :) IMO the proposal should be to sanitize the fourcc madness without doing anything ridiculous... Rich
Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx> writes:
On Fri, Apr 21, 2006 at 11:42:55AM +0300, Ivan Kalvachev wrote:
I though we are going to ommit FourCC definition on purpose. We are either going to follow avi/MS fourcc, or follow the path of matroska - defining our own completely ridiculous reinventions.
No, these are not the only two choices.
How about defining an syntax or allowing inclusion of as many aliases as possible? e.g.
"ISO14496-2;MPEG-4;XviD;XVID;xvid;DX50;DIVX;FM40"
This for sure will guarantee that any player could recognize the format :)
we could add and more additional info in brakets. E.g. {XviD,XVID,xvid}(bs=130,ver=1.1.0).
This looks like the ridiculous Matroska path to me.. :)
IMO the proposal should be to sanitize the fourcc madness without doing anything ridiculous...
I kind of like the idea of using the name of the standard where applicable. Using the name (or some derivation) of a particular implementation is about as evil as it gets, IMHO. -- Måns Rullgård mru@inprovide.com
On Fri, Apr 14, 2006 at 01:33:16PM +0300, Oded Shimon wrote:
yes yes I know, disgusting, but for f--'s sake, it's a start. can someone who has a clue help me here and we can freeze the damn spec? (So I can present NUT in linuxtag...)
Ahem, LinuxTag is 10 days away. Should I give up trying to present it there?... (serious question, not sarcastic) I'll take ANY fourcc spec you guys agree on which has at least mpeg-4 asp, mp3, and vorbis. Personally I like the simple 4 letter codes and not the big spec name/number stuff, but whatever. - ods15
On Sat, Apr 22, 2006 at 05:39:32PM +0300, Oded Shimon wrote:
On Fri, Apr 14, 2006 at 01:33:16PM +0300, Oded Shimon wrote:
yes yes I know, disgusting, but for f--'s sake, it's a start. can someone who has a clue help me here and we can freeze the damn spec? (So I can present NUT in linuxtag...)
Ahem, LinuxTag is 10 days away. Should I give up trying to present it there?... (serious question, not sarcastic)
I'll take ANY fourcc spec you guys agree on which has at least mpeg-4 asp, mp3, and vorbis. Personally I like the simple 4 letter codes and not the big spec name/number stuff, but whatever.
*cough* - ods15
Oded Shimon wrote: [deadlines!] mp3 -> mp3 h26x -> h26x (including "h263+" if you really want to differentiate) Vorbis -> vorbis Snow -> snow mpegX -> mpegX (mpeg1/mpeg2) General rule: take the Codec name or standard definition that fits the least number of chars and turn it lowercase (eg: "ISO14496-2;MPEG-4;XviD;XVID;xvid;DX50;DIVX;FM40;h263" -> h263) In case of collision due features not always implemented the fallback will be either a specific standard name (eg h263 vs h263+) or a common fourcc (last chance). Does it looks too naive? lu -- Luca Barbato Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero
Luca Barbato <lu_zero@gentoo.org> writes:
Oded Shimon wrote: [deadlines!]
mp3 -> mp3 h26x -> h26x (including "h263+" if you really want to differentiate) Vorbis -> vorbis Snow -> snow mpegX -> mpegX (mpeg1/mpeg2)
General rule: take the Codec name or standard definition that fits the least number of chars and turn it lowercase (eg: "ISO14496-2;MPEG-4;XviD;XVID;xvid;DX50;DIVX;FM40;h263" -> h263)
mpeg4 != h263
In case of collision due features not always implemented the fallback will be either a specific standard name (eg h263 vs h263+) or a common fourcc (last chance).
Does it looks too naive?
Seems sensible. The problem is only with codecs that don't have an official name, like some of Mike's game stuff. -- Måns Rullgård mru@inprovide.com
Måns Rullgård wrote:
Seems sensible. The problem is only with codecs that don't have an official name, like some of Mike's game stuff.
they don't have name so won't be a problem having us give them one.
Oded please comment lu -- Luca Barbato Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 02:37:41PM +0200, Luca Barbato wrote:
Måns Rullgård wrote:
Seems sensible. The problem is only with codecs that don't have an official name, like some of Mike's game stuff.
they don't have name so won't be a problem having us give them one.
Oded please comment
I have nothing to comment, I already stated, I'm fine with any suggestion. (The only suggestion I somewhat dislike is the ugly numbers one) Michael and Rich are the ones that need to comment... - ods15
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 03:38:17PM +0300, Oded Shimon wrote:
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 02:37:41PM +0200, Luca Barbato wrote:
Måns Rullgård wrote:
Seems sensible. The problem is only with codecs that don't have an official name, like some of Mike's game stuff.
they don't have name so won't be a problem having us give them one.
Oded please comment
I have nothing to comment, I already stated, I'm fine with any suggestion. (The only suggestion I somewhat dislike is the ugly numbers one) Michael and Rich are the ones that need to comment...
How about: audio: "mp2 " "mp3 " "ac3 " "aac " vrbs video: mp4v/mp4s/??? (pick one among those already in use) mpg1 mpg2 h263 h264 263+ (nonconformant extensions to h263 should not be tagged h263) comments? the basic idea of the above is to pick the "most sane" among the fourcc's already used in practice in _some_ format out there.. rich
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 02:10:19PM -0400, Rich Felker wrote:
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 03:38:17PM +0300, Oded Shimon wrote:
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 02:37:41PM +0200, Luca Barbato wrote:
Måns Rullgård wrote:
Seems sensible. The problem is only with codecs that don't have an official name, like some of Mike's game stuff.
they don't have name so won't be a problem having us give them one.
Oded please comment
I have nothing to comment, I already stated, I'm fine with any suggestion. (The only suggestion I somewhat dislike is the ugly numbers one) Michael and Rich are the ones that need to comment...
How about:
audio: "mp2 " "mp3 " "ac3 " "aac " vrbs
video: mp4v/mp4s/??? (pick one among those already in use) mpg1 mpg2 h263 h264 263+ (nonconformant extensions to h263 should not be tagged h263)
comments? the basic idea of the above is to pick the "most sane" among the fourcc's already used in practice in _some_ format out there..
I'm in favor. - ods15
Rich Felker wrote:
audio: "mp2 " "mp3 " "ac3 " "aac " vrbs
video: mp4v/mp4s/??? (pick one among those already in use) mpg1 mpg2 h263 h264 263+ (nonconformant extensions to h263 should not be tagged h263)
comments? the basic idea of the above is to pick the "most sane" among the fourcc's already used in practice in _some_ format out there..
Looks ok, are we all set with it? Michael? lu -- Luca Barbato Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero
Hi On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 08:25:40PM +0200, Luca Barbato wrote:
Rich Felker wrote:
audio: "mp2 " "mp3 " "ac3 " "aac " vrbs
video: mp4v/mp4s/??? (pick one among those already in use)
iam in favor of m4v or mp4v or mpg4 for mp4s i first like to hear what the s is supposed to stand for?
mpg1 mpg2 h263 h264
ok [...]
comments? the basic idea of the above is to pick the "most sane" among the fourcc's already used in practice in _some_ format out there..
ok
Looks ok, are we all set with it? Michael?
ok [...] -- Michael In the past you could go to a library and read, borrow or copy any book Today you'd get arrested for mere telling someone where the library is
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:52:00PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
Hi
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 08:25:40PM +0200, Luca Barbato wrote:
Rich Felker wrote:
audio: "mp2 " "mp3 " "ac3 " "aac " vrbs
video: mp4v/mp4s/??? (pick one among those already in use)
iam in favor of m4v or mp4v or mpg4 for mp4s i first like to hear what the s is supposed to stand for?
Stream? Only guessing
[...]
Looks ok, are we all set with it? Michael?
ok
Where should I commit fourcc.txt ?... DOCS/tech/ ? probably with name mpcf-fourcc.txt then. Or maybe NUT's svn... - ods15
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:52:00PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
video: mp4v/mp4s/??? (pick one among those already in use)
iam in favor of m4v or mp4v or mpg4
then let's use mp4v since it's the only one with established usage among these. mpg4 is unfortunately very bad because m$ stole it for use as msmpeg4v1... (or v0?)
for mp4s i first like to hear what the s is supposed to stand for?
no idea. :) rich
On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 11:30:26PM -0400, Rich Felker wrote:
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:52:00PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
video: mp4v/mp4s/??? (pick one among those already in use)
iam in favor of m4v or mp4v or mpg4
then let's use mp4v since it's the only one with established usage among these. mpg4 is unfortunately very bad because m$ stole it for use as msmpeg4v1... (or v0?)
Where can I commit this? - ods15
Oded Shimon wrote:
On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 11:30:26PM -0400, Rich Felker wrote:
video: mp4v/mp4s/??? (pick one among those already in use) iam in favor of m4v or mp4v or mpg4
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:52:00PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote: then let's use mp4v since it's the only one with established usage among these. mpg4 is unfortunately very bad because m$ stole it for use as msmpeg4v1... (or v0?)
Where can I commit this?
mplayer docs and a libnut docs and the wiki ^^ lu -- Luca Barbato Gentoo/linux Gentoo/PPC http://dev.gentoo.org/~lu_zero
On Sat, May 06, 2006 at 12:54:17PM +0200, Luca Barbato wrote:
Oded Shimon wrote:
On Tue, May 02, 2006 at 11:30:26PM -0400, Rich Felker wrote:
video: mp4v/mp4s/??? (pick one among those already in use) iam in favor of m4v or mp4v or mpg4
On Fri, Apr 28, 2006 at 10:52:00PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote: then let's use mp4v since it's the only one with established usage among these. mpg4 is unfortunately very bad because m$ stole it for use as msmpeg4v1... (or v0?)
Where can I commit this?
mplayer docs and a libnut docs and the wiki ^^
Multimedia wiki? There's no spec there, only demuxer tips. Diego suggested adding it as an appendix to mpcf. No objections in 48 hours, I'll commit. - ods15
participants (7)
-
Alex Beregszaszi -
Ivan Kalvachev -
Luca Barbato -
Michael Niedermayer -
Måns Rullgård -
Oded Shimon -
Rich Felker