Hello all, I want to put some of my dv footage (captured with kino) on the web. I have a general question about video codecs, which I am asking here, as opposed to directly to the lists for the appropriate codecs, because mencoder is a tool which can use many different codecs. I would like to present my movies online in a format which allows the smallest download, best quality, is free of strange patents, and visible on most computers. This is alot to ask I know, but with mencoder and with some amazing free-codecs I am most of the way there. I used mencoder with the -lavc to make some really nice websized encodings of my dv footage. I encoded both mpeg4 and h263p in 2 pass encoding with an mp3 audio track on another pass (I would use ogg but I think this is even less portable :(). Unfortunately I cannot read these movies on a mac (they actually crashed the machine), and I tried to view them on the windows boxes at school and at some friends but it never seems to work. On linux they are perfect. I wonder what have people used to make accessible web videos? mpeg1? what about audio? Can someone working only on Linux encode footage for the web which will be accessible to a reasonable number of computer users? and be amazing quality? Thanks for any ideas. -- Marco
On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 02:04:23PM -0400, marco@metm.org wrote:
I would like to present my movies online in a format which allows the smallest download, best quality, is free of strange patents, and visible on most computers. This is alot to ask I know, but with mencoder and with some amazing free-codecs I am most of the way there.
You're in the same situation to me. Eventually I used MPEG1, as that produced the smallest file that would play on the Windows machine I borrowed to test this. Even then I have had complaints that the files won't play.
I used mencoder with the -lavc to make some really nice websized encodings of my dv footage. I encoded both mpeg4 and h263p in 2 pass encoding with an mp3 audio track on another pass (I would use ogg but I think this is even less portable :().
Unfortunately I cannot read these movies on a mac (they actually crashed the machine), and I tried to view them on the windows boxes at school and at some friends but it never seems to work. On linux they are perfect. I wonder what have people used to make accessible web videos? mpeg1? what about audio?
The trouble is that Microsoft decided only to implement part of MPEG4. You can try MS-MPEG4, but I've not found a linux tool that will produce MS-MPEG4 that Windows Media Player will actually play. To play standard MPEG4 Windows users need to install a new player or codec. G -- If you want to know what God thinks of money, just look at the people he gave it to. -- Dorothy Parker
On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 07:33:31PM +0100, Graham Bleach wrote:
On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 02:04:23PM -0400, marco@metm.org wrote:
I would like to present my movies online in a format which allows the smallest download, best quality, is free of strange patents, and visible on most computers. This is alot to ask I know, but with mencoder and with some amazing free-codecs I am most of the way there.
You're in the same situation to me. Eventually I used MPEG1, as that produced the smallest file that would play on the Windows machine I borrowed to test this. Even then I have had complaints that the files won't play.
I imagine there are many people in our situation perhaps we can make a "help-page" informative about libre codecs with links to how to get them to play on non-libre systems. Does one exist already? I wanted to do this for my site, but I know very little about non-libre systems so I thought I would ask first.
The trouble is that Microsoft
<snip> I need read no further. Controls over content are dangerous, which is why I think an informative help page, or some kind of collaborative decision about the most logical 'libre' format for distributing video to the internet is important. -- Marco
On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:04:23 -0400 marco@metm.org wrote:
[Automatic answer: RTFM (read DOCS, FAQ), also read DOCS/bugreports.html] I would like to present my movies online in a format which allows the smallest download, best quality, So far, it's a reasonable question...
is free of strange patents, First of all, what does this even mean? What are "strange patents" and how do they differ from "normal patents". Also, nobody could answer your question (assuming they understand it) because patents vary from country to country, and you haven't said where you are, where you are going to be distributing the files, etc.
and visible on most computers. This is rather vague too. Just about every codec in the world, can work on any computer, once you've installed the codecs. Are you looking for a codec that most players support without needing to install an additional codec?
As a guess, I'd say you'd want MPEG1 video, and MPEG-1 layer 1/2 audio. It's not all that good, but it's probably the only codec that every media player is going to support. As an added bonus, the patents on MPEG-1 have long since expired. And to make things more fun, mencoder doesn't support the creation of mpeg1-layer1/2 audio, and it's mpeg container support isn't too impressive.
On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 04:29:18AM -0700, rcooley wrote:
visible on most computers. This is rather vague too. Well I may have been vauge but you seem to have understood my question. Thanks for the responce.
I would much prefer present my videos on my website in a 'libre' codec. I am impressed by the quality of the -lavc mpeg4 and h263p compressions I created, I was a bit let down that I could not view these on non-linux computers. I realize that there are many reasons for this, and would prefer be a part of the solution than borrow a proprietary system to make my compressions.
Just about every codec in the world, can work on any computer, once you've installed the codecs. Are you looking for a codec that most players support without needing to install an additional codec?
Is there a page somewhere with the compatibility status of the different codecs? If I compress a video with X implementation of Y codec what does someone need to do to watch it on windows and mac?
As a guess, I'd say you'd want MPEG1 video, and MPEG-1 layer 1/2 audio. It's not all that good, but it's probably the only codec that every media player is going to support. As an added bonus, the patents on MPEG-1 have long since expired. I thought H263 was highly portable, but the H263p's I made aren't readable. Is it because I wrapped them in an avi container with an mp3 (which I thought was portable though not 'libre')? Any experience with H263 + audio?
And to make things more fun, mencoder doesn't support the creation of mpeg1-layer1/2 audio, and it's mpeg container support isn't too impressive. It seems on first glance that sox doesn't make mpeg1-layer1/2 audio either. I have made avi containers of almost any kind of video and audio stream. Any idea on the portability status of avi containers?
[Automatic answer: RTFM (read DOCS, FAQ), also read DOCS/bugreports.html] On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 04:29:18AM -0700, rcooley wrote: I was a bit let down that I could not view these on non-linux computers. All you need is to install an MPEG4 codec. Divx.com is the most common/popular, but xvid, and the ffmpeg direct-show filters would do
On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:23:39 -0400 marco@metm.org wrote: the job as well.
I realize that there are many reasons for this, and would prefer be a part of the solution than borrow a proprietary system to make my compressions. MPEG4 is patent-encumbered, but not propritary by any means.
Is there a page somewhere with the compatibility status of the different codecs? There probably is, but I don't know about it. I personally don't think it's really necessary, since mencoder doesn't support very many formats. It's easy to check 2 or 3 media players' specs to see if they are supported, or require additional software.
It seems on first glance that sox doesn't make mpeg1-layer1/2 audio either. You'll want toolame, ffmpeg, or maybe even mp3encode.
Any idea on the portability status of avi containers? Let's just say you'll be better off in many ways, using an mpeg container, rather than avi. Better support for MPEG1 video/audio. More tolerant to damage. Better container overall.
Once you've got video and audio, you could use a program like mplex to make them into an mpeg file.
On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 06:16:38AM -0700, rcooley wrote:
It seems on first glance that sox doesn't make mpeg1-layer1/2 audio either. You'll want toolame, ffmpeg, or maybe even mp3encode.
Any idea on the portability status of avi containers? Let's just say you'll be better off in many ways, using an mpeg container, rather than avi. Better support for MPEG1 video/audio. More tolerant to damage. Better container overall.
Once you've got video and audio, you could use a program like mplex to make them into an mpeg file.
Great thanks for the info. I am thinking of offering two possibilities for download: -- mpeg4s with links to xvid and ffmpeg codec download pages -- and mpeg1 with mpeg1-layer2 audio made with mplex. (I guess I made an mpeg1 with mp3 audio which did not work.) I am still curious about the H263 codec though, as it seems to be quite widely implemented. Gnome-meeting uses it I believe, and the quality to size ratio of the compressions I made were quite impressive (not much movement in the images). Any way of wrapping that up in an mpeg container to get audio, perhaps I should be asking on an mplex list somewhere? -- Marco
participants (4)
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Graham Bleach -
Marco Scoffier -
marco＠metm.org
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rcooley