Arpi writes:

...

CVS change done by Diego Biurrun CVS

Removed Files: arpi-s.jpg arpi.jpg hq-small.gif hq.gif lgb-640k.jpg poncso.jpg team.jpg torgyi.jpg Log Message: unused

why unused? what happened to the good old mplayer funpage? did you also removed the best of irclogs, and lgb's poet???

I removed bestofmplayer.src.en, faq2.src.en and fpage.src.en more than three months ago, so none of these images is used anymore. I think fpage.src.en was the fun page and bestofmplayer.src.en were the IRC logs. I have no idea where LGB's poetry was, nor was I ever aware something like this was on the homepage. Diego

Arpi writes:

...

...

...

CVS change done by Diego Biurrun CVS

Removed Files: arpi-s.jpg arpi.jpg hq-small.gif hq.gif lgb-640k.jpg poncso.jpg team.jpg torgyi.jpg Log Message: unused

why unused? what happened to the good old mplayer funpage? did you also removed the best of irclogs, and lgb's poet???

I removed bestofmplayer.src.en, faq2.src.en and fpage.src.en more than

why??? did they kill your cat, or whatever?

Well, didn't you know that for every time you flame, god kills a kitten? Somebody just had to avenge all those poor creatures some day... ;-)

or you just lost your sense of humour?

Never had one, much less an Hungarian one, besides humor is strictly forbidden in the Neu-Team ;-P Arpi, you don't have to like what I do, just as I don't like some of the things you do. But you have to come to terms with the fact that you stepped down and are no longer in control of MPlayer. Some things are done differently now and you will have to accept that. Trying to continue controlling things from retirement is not going to get you anywhere. I learned that lesson when going back to age-old Debian flamewars. Just let it go... Arpi, we are different people with different opinions and different outlooks on life. We don't have to be friends, but maybe we can simply respect each other and live in peace (and no, without vmiklos, thanks). Diego

Hi,

...

simply respect each other and live in peace (and no, without vmiklos, thanks).

i cant respect your destroy-all-the-past style, sorry.

This commit only removed images that really weren't used anymore anywhere, so it does not really destroy anything? Also, they are still in CVS. I could understand that fuss far better if the complaint had been about the funpage removal (although keeping it would mean one more page that has to (or at least should be) maintained...) Greetings, Reimar Döffinger

Gabucino writes:

Reimar D?ffinger wrote:

...

This commit only removed images that really weren't used anymore anywhere We complained for them too, but the person(s) in charge didn't listen.

I don't remember such a thing and there was never a reply on the mailing list when I removed those pages 3.5 months ago: http://mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/mplayer-docs/2004-July/001852.html http://mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/mplayer-docs/2004-July/001854.html Diego

Hi,

Hi,

...

...

simply respect each other and live in peace (and no, without vmiklos, thanks).

i cant respect your destroy-all-the-past style, sorry.

This commit only removed images that really weren't used anymore anywhere, so it does not really destroy anything? Also, they are still in CVS. I could understand that fuss far better if the complaint had been about the funpage removal (although keeping it would mean one more page that has to (or at least should be) maintained...)

of course it was about the funpage, and diego's remove style in general. this was not his first action so far. it's like if i remove Makefile from cvs, then a few weeks later remove the rest of the files, saying: they weren't used anymore anywhere... A'rpi / MPlayer, Astral & ESP-team -- MPlayer's new image: happiness & peace & cosmetics & vmiklos

Hi,

I fully agree with Arpi. Diego's past+fun erasing is laughable, and evil. Those files will disappear forever with an eventual cvs->svn move, and I find it

I can't really believe this. If that is true, the cvs->svn move should _never_ be made. It would make it impossible to get a working version of e.g. pre3! Greetings, Reimar Döffinger

Arpi writes:

...

Arpi, you don't have to like what I do, just as I don't like some of the things you do. But you have to come to terms with the fact that you stepped down and are no longer in control of MPlayer. Some things are done differently now and you will have to accept that. Trying to

i dont try to control mplayer. i just thought i had some copyright of some things i (or we, with my friends from old-team) made in the past.

What's your point? Do you feel I (or we, with my friends from the Neu-Team) infringed your copyrights? How?

mphq was always a little bit more than an mplayer tarball distribution site. it was a playground of a small community, including not strictly mplayer-related things, like personal homepages, fun, warez :) and so on...

It still is, I didn't touch any personal homepages, nor would I. I just maintain the project homepage. Nobody prevents you from putting the fun page back up somewhere. I did not destroy the data, I just removed it from the project homepage.

...

continue controlling things from retirement is not going to get you

but i still have my hands over the power button of mphq box... dont forget that little detail, please.

Trust me, I don't.

maybe it's time for the neu-team to move back to sourceforge, and leave the old ppl alone.

Or maybe it's time for both factions to quit monitoring each other's activity and coexist. Is it possible that we could just ignore each other?

...

simply respect each other and live in peace (and no, without vmiklos, thanks).

i cant respect your destroy-all-the-past style, sorry.

I'm not destroying the past. Also, there is no point in singling me out like you constantly do. I'm not acting alone from out of a void. Let's stop arguing and try to find a compromise that is workable for both sides. Yes, I can understand that you want to see "historic" versions of the homepage preserved. Contrary to what you may think I'm absolutely not opposed to that, all the opposite. (OK, it's probably hard to tell from my words and actions.) I just want to be able to change and evolve the current version of the site as I and the others see fit. I think at the heart of this lies a technical problem. Currently if some content is changed it is reflected in all the designs the site offers. It's not infeasible to change this. I have the following idea: Old designs could be "frozen in time" so that they do not offer up-to-date content but rather a version of the site up to the time when the design went out of service. So if you go to http://mplayerhq.hu/design7/news.html you get the latest version of the homepage with content up to today and when you go to http://mplayerhq.hu/design6/news.html you get content up to the point when design7 started (27th of April 2004), including funpage and whatnot. The same could be done for the other designs. Reimar proposed having a place where old stuff gets put which you can browse if you want to look at old versions of the site. Arpi, would such a solution satisfy you? Diego

Hi,

...

Reimar proposed having a place where old stuff gets put which you can browse if you want to look at old versions of the site.

Arpi, would such a solution satisfy you?

it doesnt matter what statisfy me. i doesnt matter. i don't even ask you to put back the pages you removed (maybe i should). I just asked a very simple question: why do you remove pages, not belonging to your business? Without permission of authors...

As far as I know, Diego is the homepage maintainer and thus everything that is part of the homepage "belongs to his business". If you think that Diego should be more careful with removing things, I think I agree. But in exchange there _must_ be clear rules. Making the maintainer ask for every change if it is okay is not acceptable! And if anyone wants to know my opinion (and as you don't seem to be ready to provide yours ;-) ): I'd like to have those page accessible somewhere, but they don't really belong to the homepage (anymore?). Greetings, Reimar Döffinger

Hi,

...

What's your point? Do you feel I (or we, with my friends from the Neu-Team) infringed your copyrights? How?

By deleting files of our work, without even asking us. Afaik the files at mplayer homepage were never released under GPL or any license. So their copyright is hold by their author...

Hmm, what does that means? We have just deleted the files, that means we got rid of the non-GPL licensed work, which we can't redistribute.

...

It still is, I didn't touch any personal homepages, nor would I. I just maintain the project homepage.

Really??? ... What about the funpage and others, then? They were personal pages actually, just put to /var/www because it belongs to more than one user, so putting it under ~gabucino or ~arpi has no much sence...

Would you please stop this annoying flaming?

you still dont understand. i don't miss the funpage (so much, although it was really funny), my problem is that you change and remove pages don't belong to you. I don't go to your house and remove walls, just because you allowed me to re-paint the front door.

What doesn't belongs to him, to the project? MPHQ belongs to the project, if not, you should just remove the non-donated parts and build a new machine using that for your crew. Non-donated parts include those SCSI-converters, and maybe some little things. I know that the mainbord, the cpu and memory were donated by UHU, some inital disks aswell by UHU (they may be dead now), and lot of SCSI disks by severe folks. You can claim what you want, and you are free to destroy our (and your) work aswell with making the server unavaible for us.

Yes, assuming we don't cross eachother's work or interests.

And you cross them? Or why are you flaming?

it doesnt matter what statisfy me. i doesnt matter. i don't even ask you to put back the pages you removed (maybe i should). I just asked a very simple question: why do you remove pages, not belonging to your business? Without permission of authors... If you're unable to answer, it's a problem, not a feature.

Permissions, permissions, and you _really_ are a free software developer? I don't think, you are thinking too much about permissions. Better would be if you would just patent everything you implement and than you could just sue everyone. -- Alex Beregszaszi e-mail: alex@fsn.hu Free Software Network cell: +36 70 3144424

Sorry for this overly long-winded reply. I came back home late from work and decided to just get this over with. Sleepiness has made this take much longer than it should have and the result is probably less clear than it should be. Anyway, here it goes... Michael Niedermayer writes:

On Tuesday 02 November 2004 13:57, Diego Biurrun wrote:

...

Arpi writes:

...

...

Arpi, you don't have to like what I do, just as I don't like some of the things you do. But you have to come to terms with the fact that you stepped down and are no longer in control of MPlayer. Some things are done differently now and you will have to accept that. Trying to

i dont try to control mplayer. i just thought i had some copyright of some things i (or we, with my friends from old-team) made in the past.

What's your point? Do you feel I (or we, with my friends from the Neu-Team) infringed your copyrights? How?

dunno, IANAL, but removal could be considered a modification ...

If you would consider the complete homepage as a work that could be protected under copyright *as a whole*, then yes, this might have some merit, but I sincerely doubt there is a way to make it fit that definition. Let's have a look at what the homepage consists of and what parts may be copyrightable by whom. First off we have design and we have content. I think they should be treated separately. [standard disclaimer: IANAL] Design: - design1-6: Done by various people, they are completely unchanged. - design7: The layout was done by me starting from design6 as a base but has been completely changed internally. It's gone from three columns to two, I redid much of the HTML, two instead of five nested tables, etc. The images are from mechanik fiveonetwo with some modifications from me. I mailed him, he wants to keep his name on the page as long as we keep using his images, so no problem from him. If there is copyright here (I would say only the images are copyrightable) one part is mine, the other used with permission. Content: - codecs.html: Written by me and Roberto based on Alex' old codecs page (IMO too trivial to be copyrightable). - dload.html: 90% of its current content written by me, based on previous versions (IMO too trivial to be copyrightable). - donations.html: Redesigned by Alex (no, NOT me!), text mine, absolutely trivial. - info.html: Reworded and rewritten by me, description at the top is taken from the (GPL) man page, feature lists are trivial. - news.html: About two thirds written by me and Alex, the rest by Gabu and Arpi. Again some parts are very trivial (like three line announcements that only state simple facts or release changelogs) but here are some parts where copyright may apply. - news-archive.html: Mostly by Gabu and Arpi, a bit from Alex, me and Pontscho. The first entries are not signed, I won't bother looking up the CVS logs, it's probably Arpi and Gabu who wrote them. The same as for news.html applies. - projects.html: Has over 100 entries, two thirds mine, rest Gabu and Alex. Text rewritten by me, but it's all quite trivial anyway. - screen.html: Text absolutely trivial, 54 screenshots, I added more than 30 from various sources. Are screenshots copyrightable? I doubt it. All are used with permission, unless Gabu decides to revoke that permission from the 10 or so taken on his machine. - bestofmplayer.html: Quotes from IRC and mailing lists, 95% Hungarian. It's written by Gabu, but who should copyright belong to, when it consists of quotes from so many people? Is a collection of quotes as a whole copyrightable? I doubt it. - faq2.html: FAQ-style joke collection, maybe copyrightable as a whole. 3K of text, not really much anyway. - fpage.html: No text, some images that are probably copyrightable. 500 bytes without the 5 images, not really much anyway. All in all I think the parts that may deserve copyright and should be preserved as is are unchanged. Does the homepage constitute a work that is copyrightable as a whole? I don't think so. The homepage of an active project is in constant flux by its very nature. You have to be able to change it. Then there is the point raised by Arpi that the homepage was never released under GPL or whatever. This is true. Nevertheless the homepage has served as project homepage for years with the consent of all authors, this probably allows continuing to use it this way under customary law. Copyright just does not work this way. In order to be able to say "The homepage may only be used with the fun page, not without." you need to attach a license to it that says so. There is obviously no such thing. Modifying parts that are more than mere statement of facts and have clear authorship attached to them is not OK. News entries fall under this category as would individual quotes from IRC and mailing lists. [We've been through this; I made a mistake, recognized the error of my ways and apologized, so please let's not go back to this.] However, what we are discussing now is different. bestofmplayer.html, faq2.html and fpage.html are not directly related to each other, nor to the rest of the homepage. They have been written at different times by different authors with different intent. Therefore they cannot fall under copyright as a whole. Removing something that is protected by copyright on its own is not the same as removing part of something that is protected by copyright and does not violate copyright.

...

...

i cant respect your destroy-all-the-past style, sorry.

I'm not destroying the past. Also, there is no point in singling me out like you constantly do. I'm not acting alone from out of a void.

who is supporting these removals except u?

Alex for sure. I talked with many people about the homepage redesign etc and I don't remember objections to the removals. I think I had some more explicit consent (Attila?), but my memory is rather unclear about this because I always considered this to be a minor issue since the pages are very short and not elaborate at all, even unfinished.

...

Let's stop arguing and try to find a compromise that is workable for both sides.

what about asking/voting before such controversial steps?

I really did not expect this to be so controversial in the first place. I remember talking it over with Alex and I think some others as well while the new homepage design was discussed. Nobody objected and there was no reaction on the mailing list (until now). I am the homepage maintainer so I would expect my opinion to have some weight when it comes to deciding about homepage design and content. There is much ado about nothing going on here. Let's review again what it is that we are talking about, many people have never seen those pages. Therefore I've put up the pages again in my home dir. Here is what I think of them and why I removed them. http://mplayerhq.hu/~diego/design7/faq2.html Partially funny, partially offensive, partially WTF. I don't like it, neither does Alex. Since I decided not to link to it anymore from the info page I did not see much point in keeping it. http://mplayerhq.hu/~diego/design7/fpage.html It's marked TODO and wasn't updated in years. You could consider it the beginning of a developer's gallery (I like the idea of a page with info about some or all developers), but it is completely unfinished and barren. IMO the images are lame, childish and extremely ugly. http://mplayerhq.hu/~diego/design7/bestofmplayer.html I have no idea what it is about since it's mostly Hungarian, the jokes are thus lost on me. It's mostly private stuff and doesn't belong on the homepage IMO. Most of the people in there are no longer active, some for a very long time. I also want to have a uniform and professional look for all parts of the homepage (and have it completely translated), but I see no way to make these pages fit in. It's either redo from scratch or remove IMO. Also (but admittedly minor) the HTML of those pages is horrible and full of errors. So while I was redesigning and rewriting the homepage I thought what I should do with these pages. Since I saw no value for the project in those pages I just couldn't be bothered to make them fit in with the rest of the homepage. And thus I decided one day that I had had enough of them, that they had had their fifteen minutes in the spotlight, that nothing is for eternity and that their time had come. Diego

On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 11:40:51AM +0100, Diego Biurrun wrote:

Arpi writes:

...

...

CVS change done by Diego Biurrun CVS

Removed Files: arpi-s.jpg arpi.jpg hq-small.gif hq.gif lgb-640k.jpg poncso.jpg team.jpg torgyi.jpg Log Message: unused

why unused? what happened to the good old mplayer funpage? did you also removed the best of irclogs, and lgb's poet???

I removed bestofmplayer.src.en, faq2.src.en and fpage.src.en more than three months ago, so none of these images is used anymore. I think fpage.src.en was the fun page and bestofmplayer.src.en were the IRC logs. I have no idea where LGB's poetry was, nor was I ever aware something like this was on the homepage.

i was always against all these changes, and told you many times. please put them back. i have no intention of starting a flamewar, please just put them back. rich

On Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:34:25 +0100 Attila Kinali <attila@kinali.ch> wrote: Hmm.. i should reread stuff before i send them.

Another is that Diego does work and this is continuesly the targeted.

This should read as: Another thing is that Diego does work and thus makes mistakes, this is the reason why he is continuesly targeted. Attila Kinali -- egp ist vergleichbar mit einem ikea bausatz fuer flugzeugtraeger -- reeler in +kaosu

On Thursday, 04 November 2004 at 01:39, Gabucino wrote:

Attila Kinali wrote:

...

* Diego has deleted the funpages. Nobody complained at that time (at least i dont remember anyone) Not true.

--- Day changed Thu Sep 09 2004 ... 23:57 < Gabucino> pity diego removed these pages 23:57 < Gabucino> bestofmplayer 23:57 <@dalias> i want to put faq2 back 23:57 < Gabucino> i want funpage and bestofmplayer back too ... 03:26 <@dalias> except diego rm'd bestofmplayer.html :(

Translate it to English and I'm all for it. Otherwise it shouldn't be on the homepage. FAQ2 was indeed rude and tasteless sometimes, but I guess a little user flaming doesn't hurt anyone. Just make sure authors' names are visible, so people know who to blame. ;) And if you do restore it, Diego, put it in some "Developers' fun/jokes/flames" section or something. Not that I really care to have them back. R. -- MPlayer RPMs maintainer: http://greysector.rangers.eu.org/mplayer/ "I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness ... and the light." -- Delenn in Grey Council in Babylon 5:"Babylon Squared"

On Friday, 05 November 2004 at 03:59, Diego Biurrun wrote:

Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski writes: [...]

...

Translate it to English and I'm all for it. Otherwise it shouldn't be on the homepage. FAQ2 was indeed rude and tasteless sometimes, but I guess a little user flaming doesn't hurt anyone. Just make sure authors' names are visible, so people know who to blame. ;)

The problem is that while some people do like it quite a few others oppose it. IMO homepage content should not "divide" developers but be instead something they all endorse and can live with.

Agree.

This is clearly not the case for faq2. Yes, this kind of compromise may mean settling for the lowest common denominator. (Pieces expressing individual opinions are a different story.)

So mark it as "warning, potentially offensive content, do not read if you're easily offended" or something. Just an idea. R. -- MPlayer RPMs maintainer: http://greysector.rangers.eu.org/mplayer/ "I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness ... and the light." -- Delenn in Grey Council in Babylon 5:"Babylon Squared"

On Saturday 06 November 2004 20:35, Arpi wrote:

those pages were online there for 4 years, and nobody was offended, at least they didnt tell it us.

Users would have been too afraid of flames to complain if so :-)

Hi,

On Saturday, 06 November 2004 at 19:43, Jan Knutar wrote:

...

On Saturday 06 November 2004 20:35, Arpi wrote:

...

those pages were online there for 4 years, and nobody was offended, at least they didnt tell it us.

Users would have been too afraid of flames to complain if so :-)

Oh yeah, and there's that, too.

rotflmao! (i've imagined an average mplayer user, keeping the biggest secret ever deep inside his soul: he is offended by faq2 but he is not brave enough to tell anyone... oh, dear. you need a doctor!) mplayer users have never been afraid of flames, never ever. A'rpi / MPlayer, Astral & ESP-team -- MPlayer's new image: happiness & peace & cosmetics & vmiklos

Arpi writes:

...

On Saturday, 06 November 2004 at 19:43, Jan Knutar wrote:

...

On Saturday 06 November 2004 20:35, Arpi wrote:

...

those pages were online there for 4 years, and nobody was offended, at least they didnt tell it us.

Users would have been too afraid of flames to complain if so :-)

Oh yeah, and there's that, too.

rotflmao! (i've imagined an average mplayer user, keeping the biggest secret ever deep inside his soul: he is offended by faq2 but he is not brave enough to tell anyone... oh, dear. you need a doctor!)

People really are/were turned off by MPlayer's image. I've talked to several such cases. Interesting was also a talk I had with Reimar and Alexander Strasser and a German (sorry I forget names so easily) that had lived in Hungary for several years at the LNM award show. He told me he had talked to many Hungarians who used xine because they hated you personally. I'm not even judging whether this is good, bad or just WTF, but it IS a reality. Diego

Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote:
> > Users would have been too afraid of flames to complain if so :-)
> Oh yeah, and there's that, too.
All these reasonings against the funpage content are just as cloudy and
ill-spirited as
 - SCO's reasonings
 - RIAA's reasonings

-- 
Gabucino

Hi,

...

...

So mark it as "warning, potentially offensive content, do not read if you're easily offended" or something. Just an idea.

those pages were online there for 4 years, and nobody was offended, at least they didnt tell it us. i wonder what has changed now?

Would that be because:

1. virtually nobody has ever read it 2. hardly anybody understood it 3. nobody gives a damn

Pick your answer. :P

read the question again: "what has changed now?" ! i agree with all 1-3, but they are still the same, since ages. if the pages didnt offend anyone (because they didnt read, didnt understand, didnt care) they won't care in future too, so why to remove these pages? btw, as a side-note: this removal generated a lot more attention to these pages (many ppl read them now, thanks to the big flame :)) than it would have if you left them alone... did you really want this? :) you know: negative advertisement is advertisement too. (the main rule of Gabu's PR) A'rpi / MPlayer, Astral & ESP-team -- MPlayer's new image: happiness & peace & cosmetics & vmiklos

Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote:

...

...

Pick your answer. :P read the question again: "what has changed now?" ! Diego's maintainting it. That's noticable. Most things that Diego maintains tends to disappear.

...

didnt care) they won't care in future too, so why to remove these pages? Simple: clean-up. ROTFL. Cleanup? Removing nice easter eggs? How can you say "cleanup" since meanwhile my old "cat * > news.html" script is being ported to use GNU make? (ROTFL! Bloat of bloats.)

I find faq2 somewhat offensive WTF?! Sorry but you seem like a clouded minded christian from the Vatican.

-- Gabucino

Diego Biurrun wrote:

On my machine (K6-III 500) your script takes about 6 seconds every time it is run, no matter what changed. Torinthiel's build system takes 7 seconds after a make clean but also calls sed to fix page encodings. Later on when only one page has changed it only takes about 1 second. For the homepage make clean is never necessary. When three pages have been changed it still takes less than 2 seconds. Irrelevant. The point is: unneeded dependency, unneeded bug-proneness, unneeded bloat.

Like the XML docs, it requires make 3.80, or else it will fail with error. I guess this makefile also requires 3.80 for a simple cat * Oh great. -- Gabucino

Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote:

Keeping flames on official website does not help MPlayer's image. You've never read those pages. Nobody is flamed! (and that's an exception. Maybe it should be fixed? I suggest a new entry to faq: Q: What's a neu-team? A: The thing your mother always tried to protect you from. or something.)

Nice? You call the so-called "developer image gallery" nice? I've seen kids make nicer drawings and webpages. Yes, I do. Arpi does. Richard does. Even hup.hu users do, go ahead and read. So just because your taste is sick, ours isn't.

It was inflexible and it didn't allow for other languages to be easily supported. Have you actually tried to use the new system? AFAIR you only had to add "parse_lang XX" at the end. Guess that's much harder than maintaining a makefile.

...

...

I find faq2 somewhat offensive WTF?! Sorry but you seem like a clouded minded christian from the Vatican. Now you're being offensive and I don't appreciate it. I'm already offended by you, so I don't care.

-- Gabucino

On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 00:14:24 +0100 Gabucino <gabucino@mplayerhq.hu> wrote:

Neu-team isn't exactly helping friendship, does it.

Ok, you flamed us for nearly everything. Now you say, that it is our fault that we don't get along. But did you ever think about what you do yourself ? Did you ever reread your mails and tried to figure out how other people will read it and what reactions you might get ? Attila Kinali

Gabucino writes:

Attila Kinali wrote:

...

* Diego has deleted the funpages. Nobody complained at that time (at least i dont remember anyone) Not true.

--- Day changed Thu Sep 09 2004 ... 23:57 < Gabucino> pity diego removed these pages 23:57 < Gabucino> bestofmplayer 23:57 <@dalias> i want to put faq2 back 23:57 < Gabucino> i want funpage and bestofmplayer back too ... 03:26 <@dalias> except diego rm'd bestofmplayer.html :(

Complaints have to go to the mailing list. Random talk on IRC two months after the removal proves nothing. Diego

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 14:37:28 +0100 Gabucino <gabucino@mplayerhq.hu> wrote:

Diego Biurrun wrote:

...

Complaints have to go to the mailing list. Is that a rule? Where is it? I think nowhere.

Yes, it's the rule called "common sense". If you complain on IRC, only those currently online _and_ looking at the irc window will see it. If you write your complaint on the mailinglist everyone will see it.

...

Random talk on IRC two months after the removal proves nothing. There is nothing to be proved. At least three people complained (Arpi, me, Richard) so far, yet you disregard this.

No he didnt, he just wasnt aware of Rich's complaint. That you will complain was clear from the beginning. You are just like one of those right wing politicians who are against everything.

On the other hand, your wording ("proves nothing") implies someone is lying. Who?

And your wording implies that you are more interested in balming someone than in solving the problem. Very constructive indeed. Attila Kinali

On Wed, Nov 03, 2004 at 04:34:25PM +0100, Attila Kinali wrote:

[Attila step in] ..

Hi all Wasnt sure about me posting to this thread, first, i do respect you guys an the work you have done or do for mp, that stated, I really dislike you been such a pain in the other ass sometimes. As far as i see the probability of making mistakes is drastically increased by the amount of work and tasks you take care off, a simple look at cvs log shows that for most of the newcomers like me, diego is one (if not the) most active dev/maintainer on board, work he does on documentation/homepage is the first thing new users see from us, same users that were somewhat scared by those 'the project from hell' we all know about. My point is simple, yet hard to compose on 'eng' for me. he is doing HELL A LOT of work for us, dont know of anyone who is willing to take care of the things he takes care off or spend the time he gives to the project, I support his choices coz though he has proved several times to be driven by the good intention of making MPlayer better. stop this nonsense. Best regards Reynaldo H. Verdejo Pinochet

On Thu, 4 Nov 2004 22:58:18 +0100 Sebastian Kr_mer <mplayer@skraemer.de> wrote: [...]

Come to a decision and close this thread, please!

Well, I was asked for my opinion. At first I didn't like removing of the web pages, but then I saw them and now I say that they are gone for good. I would be happy if there is new gallery with all (former and present) developers that want to have nice picture. I would enjoy bringing the few good old jokes and more new one. But Gabu and Arpi target is not restoring something that should be there. They are just weaning, flaming and trying to prove that we are all bad and should jump from the nearest bridge. Please don't loose any more time on this thread, just ignore it. I won't break my silence anymore. Gabucino, about your complain in irc, there is an Bulgarian saying that litterlaly translates to "To complain to Armenian Priest" meaning that you are complaining to the wrong person. Arpi, the new developers have never seen your bright side. I wonder who will port g2 drivers when it is finished. Maybe Xine or KiSS Technology? Take Care Ivan Kalvachev iive P.S. I resend this mail, as it haven't showed 24 hours after I send it. I took it from my send folder. Maybe another mail miss configuration?