begun translating the manpage now, It might take a longer time the last translatioon :-), have only translate througt the description for now, rest is still english, but attach it here so you could put it inte cvs so I easier could only later attach patches. (swedish is 'sv')
Carl Fûrstenberg writes:
begun translating the manpage now, It might take a longer time the last translatioon :-), have only translate througt the description for now, rest is still english, but attach it here so you could put it inte cvs so I easier could only later attach patches. (swedish is 'sv')
It's in unicode, rejected. Please stop sending unicode stuff here, it breaks on non-unicode systems. Diego
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:43:57 +0200, Diego Biurrun <diego@biurrun.de> wrote:
Carl Fûrstenberg writes:
begun translating the manpage now, It might take a longer time the last translatioon :-), have only translate througt the description for now, rest is still english, but attach it here so you could put it inte cvs so I easier could only later attach patches. (swedish is 'sv')
It's in unicode, rejected. Please stop sending unicode stuff here, it breaks on non-unicode systems.
Diego
_______________________________________________ MPlayer-DOCS mailing list MPlayer-DOCS@mplayerhq.hu http://mplayerhq.hu/mailman/listinfo/mplayer-docs
oops, sorry, forgot (again), here is it recoded
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:59:36 +0200, Carl Fûrstenberg <azatoth@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:43:57 +0200, Diego Biurrun <diego@biurrun.de> wrote:
Carl Fûrstenberg writes:
begun translating the manpage now, It might take a longer time the last translatioon :-), have only translate througt the description for now, rest is still english, but attach it here so you could put it inte cvs so I easier could only later attach patches. (swedish is 'sv')
It's in unicode, rejected. Please stop sending unicode stuff here, it breaks on non-unicode systems.
Diego
_______________________________________________ MPlayer-DOCS mailing list MPlayer-DOCS@mplayerhq.hu http://mplayerhq.hu/mailman/listinfo/mplayer-docs
oops, sorry, forgot (again), here is it recoded
the problem is that more and more is using utf-8 enabled terminalt, and then they won't be able to read the manpage. I'm using utf-8 so now I can't see non us chars ehen I'm proofreading the manpage... but, could it be possible at installtime to automatic recode it to unicode if user want's so? if the system is somewhat new. (it should be unicode per default, but if you dont want so I have to accept that)
ok, before I'll go to bed... it would be better if I'll just could attach patches
Carl Fûrstenberg writes:
ok, before I'll go to bed... it would be better if I'll just could attach patches
You now can, I've applied your translation, thanks. Diego
Carl Fûrstenberg writes:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:59:36 +0200, Carl Fûrstenberg <azatoth@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:43:57 +0200, Diego Biurrun <diego@biurrun.de> wrote:
It's in unicode, rejected. Please stop sending unicode stuff here, it breaks on non-unicode systems.
the problem is that more and more is using utf-8 enabled terminalt, and then they won't be able to read the manpage. I'm using utf-8 so now I can't see non us chars ehen I'm proofreading the manpage...
but, could it be possible at installtime to automatic recode it to unicode if user want's so? if the system is somewhat new. (it should be unicode per default, but if you dont want so I have to accept that)
I must admit that I don't have an educated opinion about unicode yet. For now I would guess that unicode is more the exception than the norm, although I might surely be wrong about this. So for now I take the (admittedly arbitrary) decision that it has to work on my system, which does not yet have unicode capabilities. Diego P.S.: Carl, could you please quote only what is necessary for context and especially cut out mailing list footers. That would improve the readability of your messages and make them look more professional. Thanks. (If you have already taken up this habit, please disregard this. I've seen better quoting on some of your last mails but not everywhere)
On Sat, Oct 23, 2004 at 06:05:42PM +0200, Carl Fûrstenberg wrote:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:59:36 +0200, Carl Fûrstenberg <azatoth@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:43:57 +0200, Diego Biurrun <diego@biurrun.de> wrote:
Carl Fûrstenberg writes:
begun translating the manpage now, It might take a longer time the last translatioon :-), have only translate througt the description for now, rest is still english, but attach it here so you could put it inte cvs so I easier could only later attach patches. (swedish is 'sv')
It's in unicode, rejected. Please stop sending unicode stuff here, it breaks on non-unicode systems.
Diego
_______________________________________________ MPlayer-DOCS mailing list MPlayer-DOCS@mplayerhq.hu http://mplayerhq.hu/mailman/listinfo/mplayer-docs
oops, sorry, forgot (again), here is it recoded
the problem is that more and more is using utf-8 enabled terminalt, and then they won't be able to read the manpage. I'm using utf-8 so now I can't see non us chars ehen I'm proofreading the manpage...
but, could it be possible at installtime to automatic recode it to unicode if user want's so? if the system is somewhat new. (it should be unicode per default, but if you dont want so I have to accept that)
i agree. default should always be unicode for non-ascii locale. broken conflicting/proprietary character sets need to DIE!!! rich
On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 10:21:14PM -0400, D Richard Felker III wrote:
i agree. default should always be unicode for non-ascii locale. broken conflicting/proprietary character sets need to DIE!!!
Just tell me how to setup every single program to unicode, including consoles, and how to deal with those programs that still don't support unicode, and we can do it ;) Right now for most people I know switching to unicode would mean a lot of mess. Torinthiel -- Waclaw "Torinthiel" Schiller GG#: 542916, 3073512 torinthiel(at)megapolis(dot)pl gpg: B06901F1 fpr: FAA3 559F CAE9 34DE CDC8 7346 2B6E 39F2 B069 01F1 "No classmates may be used during this examination"
Torinthiel wrote:
On Sun, Oct 24, 2004 at 10:21:14PM -0400, D Richard Felker III wrote:
i agree. default should always be unicode for non-ascii locale. broken conflicting/proprietary character sets need to DIE!!!
Just tell me how to setup every single program to unicode, including consoles, and how to deal with those programs that still don't support unicode, and we can do it ;) Right now for most people I know switching to unicode would mean a lot of mess. Torinthiel
Agree with Torinthiel. One of reasons I switched Mandrake to Sarge some time ago was, Mandrake goes to UTF8, so console boot messages was a mess, some programs does not work properly, etc. and I was been bored with theirs config jump&jump stuf. Unicode, in my oppinion, is for small group of people with multilingual needs, like make a russian text with an english latex distro. Jiri
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:55:08 +0200, Jiri Heryan <technik@domotech.cz> wrote:
Agree with Torinthiel. One of reasons I switched Mandrake to Sarge some time ago was, Mandrake goes to UTF8, so console boot messages was a mess, some programs does not work properly, etc. and I was been bored with theirs config jump&jump stuf.
Unicode, in my oppinion, is for small group of people with multilingual needs, like make a russian text with an english latex distro.
Jiri
I'm using debian unstable and here unicode is per default. I like unicode, utf-8 in particular, and I write everything in utf-8, I'm not even thinking about that. utf-8 I like because it's variable byte length, This has the effect that when you are reading my translations in a non-unicode environment, you have problem to read non-ascii characters. Ascii-chars in unicode takes only 1 byte, but not the rest. For example, if I write 'ä', you will see the char[s] 0xC3 0xA4, but 0xC3 in latin1 is Ã, and 0xA4 in ascii is ¤, so it will be ä for you
On Mon, Oct 25, 2004 at 12:46:43PM +0200, Carl F?rstenberg wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:55:08 +0200, Jiri Heryan <technik@domotech.cz> wrote:
Agree with Torinthiel. One of reasons I switched Mandrake to Sarge some time ago was, Mandrake goes to UTF8, so console boot messages was a mess, some programs does not work properly, etc. and I was been bored with theirs config jump&jump stuf.
Unicode, in my oppinion, is for small group of people with multilingual needs, like make a russian text with an english latex distro.
Jiri
I'm using debian unstable and here unicode is per default. I like unicode, utf-8 in particular, and I write everything in utf-8, I'm not even thinking about that. utf-8 I like because it's variable byte length, This has the effect that when you are reading my translations in a non-unicode environment, you have problem to read non-ascii characters. Ascii-chars in unicode takes only 1 byte, but not the rest. For example, if I write 'ä', you will see the char[s] 0xC3 0xA4, but 0xC3 in latin1 is ?, and 0xA4 in ascii is ¤, so it will be ?¤ for you
I can't see how this is related to previous mail, but please at least teach your mailer to report you are writing in UTF-8, so that other mailers know to convert it. (asp. attachments) Now, something to get rid of encoding problems (me cannot seeing another people special characters, them not seeing mine, or conflicting chars) should be done. And if UTF-8 is used widely enough, i.e. MOST of programs can use it properly, it would be a nice thing. But right now I cannot read unicode without previously putting it through iconv, and that's not a convenient way to read manpages or console output. Torinthiel -- Waclaw "Torinthiel" Schiller GG#: 542916, 3073512 torinthiel(at)megapolis(dot)pl gpg: B06901F1 fpr: FAA3 559F CAE9 34DE CDC8 7346 2B6E 39F2 B069 01F1 "No classmates may be used during this examination"
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:13:52 +0200, Torinthiel <torinthiel@megapolis.pl> wrote:
I can't see how this is related to previous mail, but please at least teach your mailer to report you are writing in UTF-8, so that other mailers know to convert it. (asp. attachments) Now, something to get rid of encoding problems (me cannot seeing another people special characters, them not seeing mine, or conflicting chars) should be done. And if UTF-8 is used widely enough, i.e. MOST of programs can use it properly, it would be a nice thing. But right now I cannot read unicode without previously putting it through iconv, and that's not a convenient way to read manpages or console output.
Torinthiel
Wouldn't it be possible att compile-time to check if the system handle utf-8, otherwise convert it to som one-byte encoding? About the mailer, I'm using gmail, and I have reported this bug (?), havn't got any answer yet. About widly usage, probably everyone using a reecent version of gtk or qt is using utf-8 per default, I think. And, what would you do if someone begun translating the manpage to japanese etc...? I was now checking the help files, saw that mk and ko wasn't using one byte char tables: "help_mp-ko.h: UTF-8 Unicode C++ program text help_mp-mk.h: Non-ISO extended-ASCII C++ program text, with very long lines, with LF, NEL line terminators" Also, I see you only get a question mark, It should be A with a tilde.
On Mon, Oct 25, 2004 at 03:18:33PM +0200, Carl F?rstenberg wrote:
Wouldn't it be possible att compile-time to check if the system handle utf-8, otherwise convert it to som one-byte encoding?
Hard. For example you can have a system that has two different terminals, one supporting utf, and the other not. The system in this case supports utf-8 or not? (And it's not an idle example, I've seen boxes with this setup).
About the mailer, I'm using gmail, and I have reported this bug (?), havn't got any answer yet. About widly usage, probably everyone using a reecent version of gtk or qt is using utf-8 per default, I think. And, what would you do if someone begun translating the manpage to japanese etc...?
Then see what is the most often used Japanese encoding and use that one. That (AFAIK) was the rule for encodings until now. Torinthiel -- Waclaw "Torinthiel" Schiller GG#: 542916, 3073512 torinthiel(at)megapolis(dot)pl gpg: B06901F1 fpr: FAA3 559F CAE9 34DE CDC8 7346 2B6E 39F2 B069 01F1 "No classmates may be used during this examination"
a bit more translated, also fixed some typos.
Carl Fûrstenberg writes:
a bit more translated, also fixed some typos.
Thanks, applied. Could you please break these overly long lines after at most 79 characters? It makes diffs much easier to read. Also I think it would be a good idea if you could add a note to the top of the man page saying something like "Work in progress, help appreciated." You might find somebody that lends you a hand.. Diego
On Monday 25 October 2004 16:18, Carl Fûrstenberg wrote:
Wouldn't it be possible att compile-time to check if the system handle utf-8, otherwise convert it to som one-byte encoding?
Fedora's man seems to be doing the oposite. Here's the first few lines of what it renders the SV manpage to: XXX XXX WARNING: old character encoding and/or character set XXX MPlayer(1) The Movie Player MPlayer(1) NAME mplayer - filmspelare mencoder - filmkodare ----------- My terminal is set to UTF-8, so I assume that since I can see the umlauts, the manpage got automatically converted from iso8859-1 to UTF-8 for me. [this mail has been sent in iso8859-1 for sanity's sake]
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:40:02 +0300, Jan Knutar <jknutar@nic.fi> wrote:
My terminal is set to UTF-8, so I assume that since I can see the umlauts, the manpage got automatically converted from iso8859-1 to UTF-8 for me.
strange, when I do man there is no manual conversion, I have to do a charcast (or what it is called), have to do like this "$ man -L sv_SE.ISO-8859-1 -l mplayer.1"
On Monday, 25 October 2004 at 20:50, Carl F?rstenberg wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:40:02 +0300, Jan Knutar <jknutar@nic.fi> wrote:
My terminal is set to UTF-8, so I assume that since I can see the umlauts, the manpage got automatically converted from iso8859-1 to UTF-8 for me.
strange, when I do man there is no manual conversion, I have to do a charcast (or what it is called), have to do like this "$ man -L sv_SE.ISO-8859-1 -l mplayer.1"
My man doesn't know anything about options such as -L or -l. What are these and which version of man are you using? $ rpm -q man man-1.5k-12 $ man -V man, version 1.5k R. -- MPlayer RPMs maintainer: http://greysector.rangers.eu.org/mplayer/ "I am Grey. I stand between the candle and the star. We are Grey. We stand between the darkness ... and the light." -- Delenn in Grey Council in Babylon 5:"Babylon Squared"
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:55:30 +0200, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <dominik@rangers.eu.org> wrote:
On Monday, 25 October 2004 at 20:50, Carl F?rstenberg wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:40:02 +0300, Jan Knutar <jknutar@nic.fi> wrote:
My terminal is set to UTF-8, so I assume that since I can see the umlauts, the manpage got automatically converted from iso8859-1 to UTF-8 for me.
strange, when I do man there is no manual conversion, I have to do a charcast (or what it is called), have to do like this "$ man -L sv_SE.ISO-8859-1 -l mplayer.1"
My man doesn't know anything about options such as -L or -l. What are these and which version of man are you using?
$ rpm -q man man-1.5k-12 $ man -V man, version 1.5k
R.
[0:0][azatoth@h55x311 ~]$ man --version man version 2.4.2, 2003-09-20
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:22:09 +0200, Carl Fûrstenberg <azatoth@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:55:30 +0200, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <dominik@rangers.eu.org> wrote:
On Monday, 25 October 2004 at 20:50, Carl F?rstenberg wrote:
On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 21:40:02 +0300, Jan Knutar <jknutar@nic.fi> wrote:
My terminal is set to UTF-8, so I assume that since I can see the umlauts, the manpage got automatically converted from iso8859-1 to UTF-8 for me.
strange, when I do man there is no manual conversion, I have to do a charcast (or what it is called), have to do like this "$ man -L sv_SE.ISO-8859-1 -l mplayer.1"
My man doesn't know anything about options such as -L or -l. What are these and which version of man are you using?
$ rpm -q man man-1.5k-12 $ man -V man, version 1.5k
R.
[0:0][azatoth@h55x311 ~]$ man --version man version 2.4.2, 2003-09-20
oops, forgot your first question, -L is Language and -l is local file
On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 12:23:01AM +0200, Carl F?rstenberg wrote:
oops, forgot your first question, -L is Language and -l is local file
Then they sort of broke man. Version I'm using (1.5m) just looks in standard locations normally, and assumes it's a local file if name contains '/'. That's quite sensible ;) But I'd like to have -L. Torinthiel -- Waclaw "Torinthiel" Schiller GG#: 542916, 3073512 torinthiel(at)megapolis(dot)pl gpg: B06901F1 fpr: FAA3 559F CAE9 34DE CDC8 7346 2B6E 39F2 B069 01F1 "No classmates may be used during this examination"
Torinthiel wrote ( On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 07:21:38AM +0200 ):
On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 12:23:01AM +0200, Carl F?rstenberg wrote:
oops, forgot your first question, -L is Language and -l is local file
Then they sort of broke man. Version I'm using (1.5m) just looks in standard locations normally, and assumes it's a local file if name contains '/'. That's quite sensible ;) But I'd like to have -L.
They didn't break man, and they can't do it as you never know what is man on every system or at least they can't break it globally even if they wanted... And you guys have 2 different implementations afaict from a quick research. The one goes under man in the FSF directory and the other as man-db. The man-db package does provide a man utility with the -L option to choose a locale and although it has the -l option for local mode it doesn't have to be specified as it seems smart enough to guess like the other man utility, maybe it is a not noticeable amount faster when given -l but i dunno who is interested in it is free to rtfs. Alex (beastd)
On Monday 25 October 2004 10:14, Torinthiel wrote:
Right now for most people I know switching to unicode would mean a lot of mess.
The biggest mess for me were all the filenames containing non-ASCII charachters, which had to be converted to UTF-8. My only problem right now is ssh'ing to non-UTF systems. I solve that by just starting another xterm with LANG=C xterm&.
participants (8)
-
Alexander Strasser -
Carl Fûrstenberg -
D Richard Felker III -
Diego Biurrun -
Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski -
Jan Knutar -
Jiri Heryan -
Torinthiel