Hi folks, is there any work on including helix codecs in progress ? cu -- "*Who am I*? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander, daughter of Andrei and Sophie Ivanova. I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth... I am Death Incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me." -- Cmdr. Ivanova
On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 11:16:46AM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
is there any work on including helix codecs in progress ?
What for, we already support Real codecs or what are you referring to? Diego
* Diego Biurrun <diego@biurrun.de> schrieb:
On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 11:16:46AM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
is there any work on including helix codecs in progress ?
What for, we already support Real codecs or what are you referring to?
Yeah, mplayer can load real .so's, somehow (for me it didn't really work :(() But I mean directly importing them as an normal library, while compiling. If someone's doing the mplayer side, I would take care of the codec libraries, ie. get them in an own package w/ own headers, importable via pkg-config, etc. cu -- "*Who am I*? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander, daughter of Andrei and Sophie Ivanova. I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth... I am Death Incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me." -- Cmdr. Ivanova
On Wednesday, 03 May 2006 at 19:22, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
* Diego Biurrun <diego@biurrun.de> schrieb:
On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 11:16:46AM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
is there any work on including helix codecs in progress ?
What for, we already support Real codecs or what are you referring to?
Yeah, mplayer can load real .so's, somehow (for me it didn't really work :(()
But I mean directly importing them as an normal library, while compiling.
If someone's doing the mplayer side, I would take care of the codec libraries, ie. get them in an own package w/ own headers, importable via pkg-config, etc.
Wouldn't linking against non-GPL/LGPL .so's violate MPlayer's license (GPL)? Regards, R. -- MPlayer developer and RPMs maintainer: http://rpm.greysector.net/mplayer/ There should be a science of discontent. People need hard times and oppression to develop psychic muscles. -- from "Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan
* Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <dominik@rangers.eu.org> schrieb: <snip>
Wouldn't linking against non-GPL/LGPL .so's violate MPlayer's license (GPL)?
hmm, I don't think so. The (L)GPL defines limits where the code may be used, ie. what license some code must have when it wants to use (-> import) certain code under (L)GPL, but I don't think it doesn't say anything about what kind of code an (L)GPL project may use. I didn't check it against the license text yet, but IMHO I dont think so. The question is: does the helix license allow the codecs to be included in (L)GPL'ed applications ? cu -- "*Who am I*? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander, daughter of Andrei and Sophie Ivanova. I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth... I am Death Incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me." -- Cmdr. Ivanova
Enrico Weigelt wrote:
* Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <dominik@rangers.eu.org> schrieb:
<snip>
Wouldn't linking against non-GPL/LGPL .so's violate MPlayer's license (GPL)?
hmm, I don't think so. The (L)GPL defines limits where the code may be used, ie. what license some code must have when it wants to use (-> import) certain code under (L)GPL, but I don't think it doesn't say anything about what kind of code an (L)GPL project may use.
I didn't check it against the license text yet, but IMHO I dont think so.
The question is: does the helix license allow the codecs to be included in (L)GPL'ed applications ?
I work a lot with Helix but am no license expert. I think a quick email to licensing@open.helixcommunity.org would get the answers you need though. Here is the page with the license info on it: https://helixcommunity.org/content/licenses --greg.
cu
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 12:39:57PM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
* Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <dominik@rangers.eu.org> schrieb:
<snip>
Wouldn't linking against non-GPL/LGPL .so's violate MPlayer's license (GPL)?
hmm, I don't think so. The (L)GPL defines limits where the code may be used, ie. what license some code must have when it wants to use (-> import) certain code under (L)GPL, but I don't think it doesn't say anything about what kind of code an (L)GPL project may use.
The problem is that if you link in non-free code, the resulting program is no longer distributable in its entirety under the GPL and thus is no longer distributable at all. You can make exceptions for code you hold copyright to, but MPlayer has many copyright holders and imported GPL code from other projects, so sidestepping this is not an option.
I didn't check it against the license text yet, but IMHO I dont think so.
The question is: does the helix license allow the codecs to be included in (L)GPL'ed applications ?
Only if it allows redistribution under the terms of the GPL, which I highly doubt. LGPL is irrelevant since the license in question is GPL only. Rich
* Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx> schrieb:
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 12:39:57PM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
* Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <dominik@rangers.eu.org> schrieb:
<snip>
Wouldn't linking against non-GPL/LGPL .so's violate MPlayer's license (GPL)?
hmm, I don't think so. The (L)GPL defines limits where the code may be used, ie. what license some code must have when it wants to use (-> import) certain code under (L)GPL, but I don't think it doesn't say anything about what kind of code an (L)GPL project may use.
The problem is that if you link in non-free code, the resulting program is no longer distributable in its entirety under the GPL and thus is no longer distributable at all.
Why should we *distribute* helix codecs w/ mplayer ? We just wanna use already installed one codecs, just like any other library ... cu -- "*Who am I*? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander, daughter of Andrei and Sophie Ivanova. I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth... I am Death Incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me." -- Cmdr. Ivanova
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 10:17:48PM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
* Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx> schrieb:
On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 12:39:57PM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
* Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski <dominik@rangers.eu.org> schrieb:
<snip>
Wouldn't linking against non-GPL/LGPL .so's violate MPlayer's license (GPL)?
hmm, I don't think so. The (L)GPL defines limits where the code may be used, ie. what license some code must have when it wants to use (-> import) certain code under (L)GPL, but I don't think it doesn't say anything about what kind of code an (L)GPL project may use.
The problem is that if you link in non-free code, the resulting program is no longer distributable in its entirety under the GPL and thus is no longer distributable at all.
Why should we *distribute* helix codecs w/ mplayer ? We just wanna use already installed one codecs, just like any other library ...
A binary with helix libs named in the elf headers is linked to helix and cannot be distributed under the GPL. Rich
* Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx> schrieb: <snip>
Why should we *distribute* helix codecs w/ mplayer ? We just wanna use already installed one codecs, just like any other library ...
A binary with helix libs named in the elf headers is linked to helix and cannot be distributed under the GPL.
The ELF headers only mention library names, so ld.so can find out which library filenames to look for. It does not say anything about, where the actual code of this library comes from - it's just a name. No one can claim a library name for his own, as well as no one can claim function names or entry point positions. cu -- "*Who am I*? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander, daughter of Andrei and Sophie Ivanova. I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth... I am Death Incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me." -- Cmdr. Ivanova
On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 02:58:10PM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
* Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx> schrieb:
<snip>
Why should we *distribute* helix codecs w/ mplayer ? We just wanna use already installed one codecs, just like any other library ...
A binary with helix libs named in the elf headers is linked to helix and cannot be distributed under the GPL.
The ELF headers only mention library names, so ld.so can find out which library filenames to look for. It does not say anything about, where the actual code of this library comes from - it's just a name.
Unless there is a GPL-compatible library with this name and ABI, then it is NOT JUST A NAME, it's linking, plain and simple. This was decided a long time ago. Rich
* Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx> schrieb: <snip>
The ELF headers only mention library names, so ld.so can find out which library filenames to look for. It does not say anything about, where the actual code of this library comes from - it's just a name.
Unless there is a GPL-compatible library with this name and ABI, then it is NOT JUST A NAME, it's linking, plain and simple.
Conding a dummy isn't a noticable task ...
This was decided a long time ago.
*Who* decided this ? cu -- "*Who am I*? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander, daughter of Andrei and Sophie Ivanova. I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth... I am Death Incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me." -- Cmdr. Ivanova
On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 08:41:14PM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
* Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx> schrieb:
<snip>
The ELF headers only mention library names, so ld.so can find out which library filenames to look for. It does not say anything about, where the actual code of this library comes from - it's just a name.
Unless there is a GPL-compatible library with this name and ABI, then it is NOT JUST A NAME, it's linking, plain and simple.
Conding a dummy isn't a noticable task ...
No, a dummy will not work. Only something that implements the needed functionality of the program. Have you ever READ the GPL?? What part of "complete source code" do you not understand?
This was decided a long time ago.
*Who* decided this ?
By the people who wrote the GPL and by the people who apply it to their programs. The copyright holders have the authority to set the terms under which their programs can be distributed, and when they use GPL that means it is NOT ACCEPTABLE to put part of the code of a derivative work in a nonfree shared library. Rich
On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 11:16:46AM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
Hi folks,
is there any work on including helix codecs in progress ?
Helix doesn't include codecs IIRC. Rich
* Ivan Kalvachev <ikalvachev@gmail.com> schrieb:
2006/5/1, Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx>:
On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 11:16:46AM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
Hi folks,
is there any work on including helix codecs in progress ?
Helix doesn't include codecs IIRC.
I think it includes only well know low-risk codecs. e.g. mpeg1.
Well, I personally didn't get it compiled, neither the realplayer. It obviously has several codecs (at least in the binary ;-)), since I can watch some streams (ie. BR Alpha Centauri), but its quite strange that I dont get sound ... (esd problem ?) cu -- "*Who am I*? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander, daughter of Andrei and Sophie Ivanova. I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth... I am Death Incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me." -- Cmdr. Ivanova
Enrico Weigelt wrote:
* Ivan Kalvachev <ikalvachev@gmail.com> schrieb:
2006/5/1, Rich Felker <dalias@aerifal.cx>:
On Sun, Apr 30, 2006 at 11:16:46AM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote:
Hi folks,
is there any work on including helix codecs in progress ? Helix doesn't include codecs IIRC. I think it includes only well know low-risk codecs. e.g. mpeg1.
Helix includes all sorts of codecs: https://datatype.helixcommunity.org/ Some of which (like RA/RV) are shipped as pre-compiled libs that you link against. You can get the source code for those pieces as well if you want. We are also working on adding Windows Media codecs. https://helix-client.helixcommunity.org/2005/devdocs/windowsMedia.html
Well, I personally didn't get it compiled, neither the realplayer. It obviously has several codecs (at least in the binary ;-)), since I can watch some streams (ie. BR Alpha Centauri), but its quite strange that I dont get sound ... (esd problem ?)
there may be a problem with ESound. It really doesn't provide a robust framework for A/V (lack of synchronization information) but does OK with just audio. For that reason, we (Helix) don't put too much effort into it any more. We support OSS, ALSA and USound. If you have esd running I would suggest just killing it if you want any A/V playback with Helix. Again, for just audio ESound will work fine, but you need to turn it on via a preference, Helix defaults to trying to use OSS. You might be able to configure esd to provide an OSS emulation via /dev/dsp or something. The prefs will either be in ~/.realplayerrc or ~/.helix/* depending on what player you installed or how you built Helix (command line player or one of the GUIs). The pref to control the sound driver is: SoundDriver=N where N is: # define kOSS 0 # define kSupportForOldOSS 1 # define kESound 2 # define kALSA 3 # define kUSound 4 You can find the code that reads and uses it in audio/device/hxaudev.cpp --greg.
cu
* Greg Wright <gwright@real.com> schrieb: Hi,
Helix includes all sorts of codecs:
https://datatype.helixcommunity.org/
Some of which (like RA/RV) are shipped as pre-compiled libs that you link against. You can get the source code for those pieces as well if you want. We are also working on adding Windows Media codecs.
Could we include them directly ? Seems much better to me than the crap with binary drivers.
Well, I personally didn't get it compiled, neither the realplayer. It obviously has several codecs (at least in the binary ;-)), since I can watch some streams (ie. BR Alpha Centauri), but its quite strange that I dont get sound ... (esd problem ?)
there may be a problem with ESound. It really doesn't provide a robust framework for A/V (lack of synchronization information) but does OK with just audio.
Well, the sync problem also exists w/ mplayer, but there we can adjust it manually. Not fine, but at least usable. Both realplay and helix are not able to make any sound. I also tried to go around helix' native esound driver by putting it to oss and using esound's oss emulation (/dev/dsp capturing) Okay, I'll have a direct try on the machine w/ the soundcard. I'll have to install the whole X11 library stuff and realplay there. BTW: realplay makes trouble w/ flash'ed content. For example the video streaming of the german tv show "hart aber fair" (http://www.hartaberfair.de) is unusable. A while ago, it already worked w/ some older realplay. (I didn't check 'em egain yet)
For that reason, we (Helix) don't put too much effort into it any more.
Well, would be nice, if it would work *somehow*, even if its not very good.
We support OSS, ALSA and USound.
Ah, usound looks interesting. I'll have a try with it. BTW: is there any general purpose audio output library, which we could use for many packages, so not everyone has to implement evrything by its own ? I already tried to found such a project quite some time ago, but it didn't seem to be much interest in it, ie. here @ mplayer-dev :(( cu -- "*Who am I*? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander, daughter of Andrei and Sophie Ivanova. I am the right hand of vengeance, and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth... I am Death Incarnate, and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me." -- Cmdr. Ivanova
participants (6)
-
Diego Biurrun -
Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski -
Enrico Weigelt -
Greg Wright -
Ivan Kalvachev -
Rich Felker