Inverse telecine filters ineffective?
Hello. I'm trying to encode an apparently telecined NTSC DVD (an orchestral concert recording) with mencoder (latest CVS). I've tried softpulldown+detc, softpulldown+ivtc and pullup and the combing effect is still noticeable, especially on the edges of white surfaces. The odd thing is, softpulldown says (at the end) that: softpulldown: 598 frames in, 598 frames out What does it mean? I also get many "1 duplicate frame(s)!", like one in every 10 or 20 frames. The material is not interlaced, because deinterlace filters result in a horrible ghost effect. Any clues? Or am I totally wrong and missing something? I'm uploading a piece of the DVD to mphq/MPlayer/incoming as Requiem_DVD_ivtc_ineffective.mpeg (ripped with mplayer -dumpstream). Play with mplayer -ss 00:00:44 to see some movement and the combing effect. -- MPlayer RPMs maintainer: http://www.piorunek.pl/~dominik/linux/pkgs/mplayer/ "The Universe doesn't give you any points for doing things that are easy." -- Sheridan to Garibaldi in Babylon 5:"The Geometry of Shadows"
Hi,
Hello.
I'm trying to encode an apparently telecined NTSC DVD (an orchestral concert recording) with mencoder (latest CVS). I've tried
are you sure it's telecined, and not interlaced? music videos (esp. concert recordings) are usually made by video camera, which produces pal or ntsc interlaced matreial, instead of 24fps progressive like the film cameras, which have to be telecined for ntsc. you should try to split to fields with the 'il' filter, set low fps (-fps 1) and check if you actually see duplicated fields or not. imho you wont. A'rpi / Astral & ESP-team -- Developer of MPlayer G2, the Movie Framework for all - http://www.MPlayerHQ.hu
On Sunday, 12 October 2003, Arpi wrote:
Hi,
Hello.
I'm trying to encode an apparently telecined NTSC DVD (an orchestral concert recording) with mencoder (latest CVS). I've tried
are you sure it's telecined, and not interlaced?
I'm not sure.
music videos (esp. concert recordings) are usually made by video camera, which produces pal or ntsc interlaced matreial, instead of 24fps progressive like the film cameras, which have to be telecined for ntsc.
you should try to split to fields with the 'il' filter, set low fps (-fps 1) and check if you actually see duplicated fields or not. imho you wont.
I tried: mplayer -nosound dvd://1 -fps 1 -ss 00:00:44 -vf il=d:d and I still get the "ghost" effect on every 4th, 5th and 6th frame. In 4th it's barely noticeable (just a little blurry picture), but in 5 and 6 it quite visible, the ghost is about 7px apart (to the right in 5th and to the left in 6th frame). What's more, the sequence for top and bottm field differs. If 4, 5 and 6 are "ghosts", then the sequence for the top and bottom fields is as follows: 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 That is, either top or bottom field has the ghost effect all the time. Does this make any sense to you? -- MPlayer RPMs maintainer: http://www.piorunek.pl/~dominik/linux/pkgs/mplayer/ "The Universe doesn't give you any points for doing things that are easy." -- Sheridan to Garibaldi in Babylon 5:"The Geometry of Shadows"
Hi,
and I still get the "ghost" effect on every 4th, 5th and 6th frame. In 4th it's barely noticeable (just a little blurry picture), but in 5 and 6 it quite visible, the ghost is about 7px apart (to the right in 5th and to the left in 6th frame). What's more, the sequence for top and bottm field differs. If 4, 5 and 6 are "ghosts", then the sequence for the top and bottom fields is as follows:
1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
That is, either top or bottom field has the ghost effect all the time. Does this make any sense to you?
not much. what do you mean by 'ghost effect' ? something like 2 shots of a movement from different position mixed? like a vertically scaled interlaced material? 3:2 telecine should result every 4th field repeated, so you see fields as A B C D D E F G H H I J ... where same char means same content. the inv telecine filters can only remove this. A'rpi / Astral & ESP-team -- Developer of MPlayer G2, the Movie Framework for all - http://www.MPlayerHQ.hu
On Sunday, 12 October 2003, Arpi wrote:
Hi,
and I still get the "ghost" effect on every 4th, 5th and 6th frame. In 4th it's barely noticeable (just a little blurry picture), but in 5 and 6 it quite visible, the ghost is about 7px apart (to the right in 5th and to the left in 6th frame). What's more, the sequence for top and bottm field differs. If 4, 5 and 6 are "ghosts", then the sequence for the top and bottom fields is as follows:
1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
That is, either top or bottom field has the ghost effect all the time. Does this make any sense to you?
not much. what do you mean by 'ghost effect' ? something like 2 shots of a movement from different position mixed?
Yes. As if the same or similar image has been moved a few pixels to the right or left and then superimposed on the previous one.
like a vertically scaled interlaced material?
This I don't understand. :(
3:2 telecine should result every 4th field repeated, so you see fields as A B C D D E F G H H I J ... where same char means same content. the inv telecine filters can only remove this.
I gathered as much from some Rich's mails in the archives. I guess it's not telecined then, because there's definitely a 6-field pattern in this case. However, now that I think of it, this could be a very ugly motion blur... Or could it? Anyway, thanks for your help. -- MPlayer RPMs maintainer: http://www.piorunek.pl/~dominik/linux/pkgs/mplayer/ "The Universe doesn't give you any points for doing things that are easy." -- Sheridan to Garibaldi in Babylon 5:"The Geometry of Shadows"
Hi,
not much. what do you mean by 'ghost effect' ? something like 2 shots of a movement from different position mixed? like a vertically scaled interlaced material?
ugh. i've d/l'ed your sample, and did: mplayer Requiem_DVD_ivtc_ineffective.mpeg -ss 22 -vop tfields -vo png -frames 20 (sorry i was wrong with 'il' filter, what you need is tfields) so i got 40 (fields for 20 frames) images. some look ok, some look same, some look ghost (mix of 2 camera positions). i've never seen such a mess. maybe Rich know what to do with it, i have no idea. maybe they had an interlaced recording (maybe at 25fps?) they have deinterlaced using bilinear filter (so creating ghosts) and then upsampled to ntsc 2x30fps and made it interlaced again? if you extract teh frames: mplayer Requiem_DVD_ivtc_ineffective.mpeg -ss 22 -vo png -frames 20 and watch them with a picture viewer, it looks erally weird. the camera panning has constant speed, but teh distance of interlaced fields is variable, between few (7?) pixels and 0, like a sinus wave. this suggests an fps resample to me. A'rpi / Astral & ESP-team -- Developer of MPlayer G2, the Movie Framework for all - http://www.MPlayerHQ.hu
Hi, On Sunday, 12 October 2003, Arpi wrote:
Hi,
not much. what do you mean by 'ghost effect' ? something like 2 shots of a movement from different position mixed? like a vertically scaled interlaced material?
ugh. i've d/l'ed your sample, and did:
Sorry I didn't upload more. I'll try later, maybe tomorrow evening.
mplayer Requiem_DVD_ivtc_ineffective.mpeg -ss 22 -vop tfields -vo png -frames 20 (sorry i was wrong with 'il' filter, what you need is tfields)
Yes, I see it now that I tried it. Quite a helpful thing in this case. :)
so i got 40 (fields for 20 frames) images. some look ok, some look same, some look ghost (mix of 2 camera positions).
In another scene, with faster panning, no 2 look the same and almost all look ghost...
i've never seen such a mess. maybe Rich know what to do with it, i have no idea.
Yes, indeed it's a mess. Rich? "Help me, Obi^WRich. You are my only hope." ;) -- MPlayer RPMs maintainer: http://www.piorunek.pl/~dominik/linux/pkgs/mplayer/ "The Universe doesn't give you any points for doing things that are easy." -- Sheridan to Garibaldi in Babylon 5:"The Geometry of Shadows"
participants (2)
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Arpi -
Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski