I understand that any rescaling takes a toll on quality. Is the quality hit harder on the 'x' or 'y' axis. I guess in other words, is it better to rescale on one than the other? Thanks and let me know if I'm not being clear!
Steven Miller <srmj.ml <at> gmail.com> writes:
I understand that any rescaling takes a toll on quality. Is the quality hit harder on the 'x' or 'y' axis. I guess in other words, is it better to rescale on one than the other?
I don't know. There are different scaler algorithms available which provide different quality (and speed), see the -sws option in the manual. You do realize that MEncoder is not an actively maintained application? FFmpeg contains the same scaler (with the same algorithms) and is actively maintained. Carl Eugen
I apologize for the delay. Could you please further explain "MEncoder is not an actively maintained application"? thanks much On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Carl Eugen Hoyos <cehoyos@ag.or.at> wrote:
Steven Miller <srmj.ml <at> gmail.com> writes:
I understand that any rescaling takes a toll on quality. Is the quality hit harder on the 'x' or 'y' axis. I guess in other words, is it better to rescale on one than the other?
I don't know. There are different scaler algorithms available which provide different quality (and speed), see the -sws option in the manual.
You do realize that MEncoder is not an actively maintained application? FFmpeg contains the same scaler (with the same algorithms) and is actively maintained.
Carl Eugen
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On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Steven Miller <srmj.ml@gmail.com> wrote:
I apologize for the delay. Could you please further explain "MEncoder is not an actively maintained application"?
thanks much
No one works on MEncoder anymore. It's kept around because there are still people using it (like me :p)
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Carl Eugen Hoyos <cehoyos@ag.or.at> wrote:
Steven Miller <srmj.ml <at> gmail.com> writes:
I understand that any rescaling takes a toll on quality. Is the quality hit harder on the 'x' or 'y' axis. I guess in other words, is it better to rescale on one than the other?
I don't know. There are different scaler algorithms available which provide different quality (and speed), see the -sws option in the manual.
You do realize that MEncoder is not an actively maintained application? FFmpeg contains the same scaler (with the same algorithms) and is actively maintained.
Carl Eugen
_______________________________________________ MEncoder-users mailing list MEncoder-users@mplayerhq.hu https://lists.mplayerhq.hu/mailman/listinfo/mencoder-users
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Given that mencoder is not maintained, it is not really logical to stay using it. mplayer2 doesn't even come with it as far as I know now. Anything you can do in mencoder you can achieve now in ffmpeg as of 1.2.4 or so (especially the IVTC stuff). Andrew On 30 October 2013 16:24, Grozdan <neutrino8@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Steven Miller <srmj.ml@gmail.com> wrote:
I apologize for the delay. Could you please further explain "MEncoder is not an actively maintained application"?
thanks much
No one works on MEncoder anymore. It's kept around because there are still people using it (like me :p)
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Carl Eugen Hoyos <cehoyos@ag.or.at> wrote:
Steven Miller <srmj.ml <at> gmail.com> writes:
I understand that any rescaling takes a toll on quality. Is the quality hit harder on the 'x' or 'y' axis. I guess in other words, is it better to rescale on one than the other?
I don't know. There are different scaler algorithms available which provide different quality (and speed), see the -sws option in the manual.
You do realize that MEncoder is not an actively maintained application? FFmpeg contains the same scaler (with the same algorithms) and is actively maintained.
Carl Eugen
_______________________________________________ MEncoder-users mailing list MEncoder-users@mplayerhq.hu https://lists.mplayerhq.hu/mailman/listinfo/mencoder-users
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Andrew Udvare <audvare <at> gmail.com> writes:
Anything you can do in mencoder you can achieve now in ffmpeg
This is not (yet) correct.
as of 1.2.4 or so (especially the IVTC stuff).
I only fixed IVTC today (and it is not even upstream yet) and 1.2 was still missing a lot of things. Carl Eugen
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 16:54:15 -0700, Andrew Udvare <audvare@gmail.com> wrote: Given that mencoder is not maintained, it is not really logical to stay
using it. mplayer2 doesn't even come with it as far as I know now. Anything you can do in mencoder you can achieve now in ffmpeg as of 1.2.4 or so (especially the IVTC stuff).
Can ffmpeg read DVD's? Does ffmpeg support EDL editing? The last supported version of mecoder was the best ever. It's not logical to stop using it if it still works perfectly.
It is logical because when you encounter a bug, who is going to fix it? Are you familiar with the mencoder code base? Do you know anyone who is? And, do you think anyone is willing to look at code that hasn't been maintained in years? Unless you have funding for a bug fix, I do not think you are going to get very far. Regarding DVDs, why not use mplayer to dump the VOBs using -dumpstream -dumpfile whatever.vob dvd://<title_number> then use ffmpeg to encode? This is what I currently do if I have to rip a DVD, including TV sets and similar things. The typical use case for me for any video (not just DVD) is to get the video and audio split (demuxed) and ready for use with ffmpeg. It allows you to do some better preparation prior to encoding. Usually I set up for loops in a script that will encode according to parameters (such as cropping for each individual VOB, etc). Also, -vf is exactly the same in ffmpeg (although not all filters in mencoder exist in ffmpeg). I usually encode to raw video in ffmpeg using h.264 codec and also same for audio (separate ffmpeg processes), then I put them back together depending on what I need. For MKV, mkvmerge, and for MP4 container, MP4Box. Having separate processes to do processing lets you have far more control than having one monolith app that does everything and you just hope you do not encounter an age old bug that no one is ever going to fix. This is the main reason I made the switch, especially after ffmpeg finally got a proper IVTC filter. As far as EDL, there is no support at this time (however there is a feature request for it). For now you would have to convert your file into something for the filters select, aselect, setpts, and asetpts. Honestly, I've never used this but I have used -ss and -t to specify one single point of video, which is also an option if you want to make segments then merge them together. That is a little bit easier to script IMO. Andrew On 30 October 2013 17:02, Scott W. Larson <scowl@wballphotos.com> wrote:
On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 16:54:15 -0700, Andrew Udvare <audvare@gmail.com> wrote: Given that mencoder is not maintained, it is not really logical to stay
using it. mplayer2 doesn't even come with it as far as I know now. Anything you can do in mencoder you can achieve now in ffmpeg as of 1.2.4 or so (especially the IVTC stuff).
Can ffmpeg read DVD's?
Does ffmpeg support EDL editing?
The last supported version of mecoder was the best ever. It's not logical to stop using it if it still works perfectly. ______________________________**_________________ MEncoder-users mailing list MEncoder-users@mplayerhq.hu https://lists.mplayerhq.hu/**mailman/listinfo/mencoder-**users<https://lists.mplayerhq.hu/mailman/listinfo/mencoder-users>
It is logical because when you encounter a bug, who is going to fix it? I'll deal with that if I ever encounter a bug. I haven't since the last supported release. I'd rather use reliable old software than stuff
On 10/30/2013 09:15 PM, Andrew Udvare wrote: that's constantly changing.
Regarding DVDs, why not use mplayer to dump the VOBs using -dumpstream -dumpfile whatever.vob dvd://<title_number> then use ffmpeg to encode?
Because it's a pointless waste of time when mencoder can read my DVD directly right now.
As far as EDL, there is no support at this time (however there is a feature request for it).
And I'm sticking to unsupported mencoder which has had excellent EDL support for years. I've been using it to edit out commercials before I burn TV shows to DVD. I just tap the 'i' key in mplayer when a commercial starts and hit it again when the show starts. I saw the ffmpeg feature request for EDL support months ago. Nothing has happened since. That told me how much I support I can expect from ffmpeg developers.
Andrew Udvare <audvare <at> gmail.com> writes:
although not all filters in mencoder exist in ffmpeg
Which filter are you missing? Carl Eugen
Things MEncoder can do that ffmpeg can, are among others - Encode directly from a VCD, DVD or Blu-ray disc - MPEG muxer has support for soft-telecine including frame rate flagging - EDL stuff Until ffmpeg gets all of the above, I'm sticking to MEncoder. I don't care how unmaintained it is. As long as it keeps working and I have no issues with it and it can do what I need it to do, I'm very fine with it On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Carl Eugen Hoyos <cehoyos@ag.or.at> wrote:
Andrew Udvare <audvare <at> gmail.com> writes:
although not all filters in mencoder exist in ffmpeg
Which filter are you missing?
Carl Eugen
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Grozdan <neutrino8 <at> gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:
Andrew Udvare <audvare <at> gmail.com> writes:
although not all filters in mencoder exist in ffmpeg
Which filter are you missing?
Things MEncoder can do that ffmpeg can, are among others
- Encode directly from a VCD, DVD or Blu-ray disc - MPEG muxer has support for soft-telecine including frame rate flagging - EDL stuff
Which of those are filter-related or, more specifically, which of those are related to a filter that exists in MEncoder but is missing in FFmpeg? Note that there are of course more features missing in FFmpeg than the one you point out above, I just wanted to make sure the OP knows that MEncoder is unmaintained. (I actually assumed so but apparently he wasn't.) Please do not top-post here, Carl Eugen
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 10:57 AM, Carl Eugen Hoyos <cehoyos@ag.or.at> wrote:
Grozdan <neutrino8 <at> gmail.com> writes:
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:
Andrew Udvare <audvare <at> gmail.com> writes:
although not all filters in mencoder exist in ffmpeg
Which filter are you missing?
Things MEncoder can do that ffmpeg can, are among others
- Encode directly from a VCD, DVD or Blu-ray disc - MPEG muxer has support for soft-telecine including frame rate flagging - EDL stuff
Which of those are filter-related or, more specifically, which of those are related to a filter that exists in MEncoder but is missing in FFmpeg?
Note that there are of course more features missing in FFmpeg than the one you point out above, I just wanted to make sure the OP knows that MEncoder is unmaintained. (I actually assumed so but apparently he wasn't.)
Please do not top-post here, Carl Eugen
I assume you're asking about the mpeg muxer of mencoder? If so, it's not a filter that's missing. It's a feature of the muxer itself. I already requested for this feature to be added to the ffmpeg mpeg muxer, but no one cares about it If you're asking about a real filter, then I don't miss any filters in ffmpeg. In fact, it has more filters than mencoder/mplayer we're almost 2014 and ffmpeg still can't read directly from discs. For God's sake, DVD is being phased out very slowly in favor of Blu-ray, but ffmpeg still can't handle DVDs, let alone Blu-rays
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Grozdan <neutrino8 <at> gmail.com> writes:
although not all filters in mencoder exist in ffmpeg
Which filter are you missing?
If you're asking about a real filter, then I don't miss any filters in ffmpeg. In fact, it has more filters than mencoder/mplayer
Note that I don't disagree much with anything you wrote (apart from features in MEncoder that you forgot), I was only surprised about your answer to above question. (There is a dvdnav patch for FFmpeg, sadly nobody is interested in working on it.) Carl Eugen
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 12:14:18 +0100, Grozdan <neutrino8@gmail.com> wrote:
we're almost 2014 and ffmpeg still can't read directly from discs. For God's sake, DVD is being phased out very slowly in favor of Blu-ray, but ffmpeg still can't handle DVDs, let alone Blu-rays
Additionally, the EDL code in mencoder is very simple and has been in mencoder for years. Since the request to put it into ffmpeg has been ignored so far, either something in their code makes it difficult (they've had trouble getting -ss to do accurate seeks) or there is no interest from the developers to implement this kind of feature at this point. The Changlogs show they've been busy porting mplayer codecs and adding other low level support. That's great but it doesn't sound like they're ready to add higher level features like EDL or reading from DVDs.
Scott W. Larson <scowl <at> wballphotos.com> writes:
The Changlogs show they've been busy porting mplayer codecs
??? I am not sure there was ever a codec ported from MPlayer to FFmpeg (some speech codec was a candidate but I suspect it was reimplemented instead iirc). Carl Eugen
On Thu, 31 Oct 2013 18:42:13 +0000 (UTC), Carl Eugen Hoyos <cehoyos@ag.or.at> wrote:
I am not sure there was ever a codec ported from MPlayer to FFmpeg (some speech codec was a candidate but I suspect it was reimplemented instead iirc).
I'm probably misinterpreting the change log. There are some entries that say "filter ported from libmpcodecs" and the filter name is the same as the one in mplayer.
The most critical for me has an IVTC filter (really, a set of filters: fieldmatch=order=tff:combmatch=full, yadif, decimate), which is very recent and enabled me to fully switch to ffmpeg for pretty much everything. I do not mind splitting up DVDs into their separate parts as this was how I always did it even back when I used GordianKnot + VirtualDubMod (and/or Nandub) on Windows (with DVD Decrypter to de-mux streams on the fly while decrypting). Andrew
On 31.10.2013, at 05:15, Andrew Udvare <audvare@gmail.com> wrote:
It is logical because when you encounter a bug, who is going to fix it?
Note that I have no intention of leaving any users hanging on purpose. But both my time and knowledge are limited. Simple bug fixes I'll try, but complex fixes are unlikely to happen, and new features just won't be added. Overall this means it is a good idea to try to get FFmpeg to work for what is necessary, it is the obvious long-term migration path and is almost certain to work better for everything at _some_ point.
On 2013-10-31 6:11 AM, Reimar Döffinger wrote:
... new features just won't be added.
This might sound like heresy, but frankly, some people might find this a bonus. FFmpeg might express the pinnacle of open-source awesomeness, but at least MEncoder is stable - you won't wake up one morning and find your scripts broken because they've changed the syntax on you, and no one will criticise you for using "an outdated version". I bet people will carry on using MEncoder because it does exactly what they need it to do, and they can focus on the rest of their lives. -- Peter ____________________________________________________________ FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your desktop! Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium
Peter <pscientist <at> inbox.com> writes:
but at least MEncoder is stable - you won't wake up one morning and find your scripts broken
This is exactly what happened last year and it took months iirc until it was fixed. (Audio encoding) Carl Eugen
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Reimar Döffinger <Reimar.Doeffinger@gmx.de
wrote:
Simple bug fixes I'll try, but complex fixes are unlikely to happen, and new features just won't be added.
What? No future support for HEVC? I guess I'll bug Bero (original author of ve_x264.c) to write ve_x264. That is, when x265 matures
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On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 00:08:15 +0100, Grozdan <neutrino8@gmail.com> wrote:
What? No future support for HEVC? I guess I'll bug Bero (original author of ve_x264.c) to write ve_x264. That is, when x265 matures
I switched from XVID to AVC just three years ago. I'll probably switch to HEVC sometime after FFmpeg can finally read a DVD.
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 12:16 AM, Scott W. Larson <scowl@wballphotos.com>wrote:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2013 00:08:15 +0100, Grozdan <neutrino8@gmail.com> wrote:
What? No future support for HEVC? I guess I'll bug Bero (original author of ve_x264.c) to write ve_x264. That is, when x265 matures
I switched from XVID to AVC just three years ago. I'll probably switch to HEVC sometime after FFmpeg can finally read a DVD.
Well, I have a suspicion that ffmpeg will read DVDs long, long after x265 fully matures. Maybe in another 15 years time, ffmpeg will be able to finally read BDs too, just in time when they get phased out or are already phased out LOL
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Grozdan <neutrino8 <at> gmail.com> writes:
Maybe in another 15 years time, ffmpeg will be able to finally read BDs too
Too bad I missed this;-) Current FFmpeg (since 19 months!) supports reading BDs Carl Eugen
Thanks much for the info. mencoder has been in my toolbox since day one and I'll continue to use it. I'm not knocking the ffmpeg folks. They've made a great contribution, the backbone of a lot of projects and a powerful tool on it's own, but it's a shame to effort didn't go to mencoder. ffmpeg's documentation doesn't even compare with the docs for mencoder. I've been on the ffmpeg mailing list for sometime and the devs can be rather dismissive with their "read the source" attitude. While I know C and can usually muddle my way thru, the users who don't write code must feel pretty put out with "read the source". I don't think I've ever seen that response with mplayer/mencoder. thanks again for your time. Cheers, Steve On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 7:54 PM, Andrew Udvare <audvare@gmail.com> wrote:
Given that mencoder is not maintained, it is not really logical to stay using it. mplayer2 doesn't even come with it as far as I know now. Anything you can do in mencoder you can achieve now in ffmpeg as of 1.2.4 or so (especially the IVTC stuff).
Andrew
On 30 October 2013 16:24, Grozdan <neutrino8@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Steven Miller <srmj.ml@gmail.com> wrote:
I apologize for the delay. Could you please further explain "MEncoder is not an actively maintained application"?
thanks much
No one works on MEncoder anymore. It's kept around because there are still people using it (like me :p)
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Carl Eugen Hoyos <cehoyos@ag.or.at> wrote:
Steven Miller <srmj.ml <at> gmail.com> writes:
I understand that any rescaling takes a toll on quality. Is the quality hit harder on the 'x' or 'y' axis. I guess in other words, is it better to rescale on one than the other?
I don't know. There are different scaler algorithms available which provide different quality (and speed), see the -sws option in the manual.
You do realize that MEncoder is not an actively maintained application? FFmpeg contains the same scaler (with the same algorithms) and is actively maintained.
Carl Eugen
_______________________________________________ MEncoder-users mailing list MEncoder-users@mplayerhq.hu https://lists.mplayerhq.hu/mailman/listinfo/mencoder-users
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Steven Miller <srmj.ml <at> gmail.com> writes:
I've been on the ffmpeg mailing list for sometime and the devs can be rather dismissive with their "read the source" attitude.
I don't think I've ever seen that response with mplayer/mencoder.
You do realize that they are the same persons? Carl Eugen
On 11/02/2013 06:55 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:
Steven Miller <srmj.ml <at> gmail.com> writes:
I don't think I've ever seen that response with mplayer/mencoder. You do realize that they are the same persons?
There are many more contributors to FFmpeg than mplayer and many of the old mplayer developers only work on FFmeg now. But I don't know what Steven is talking about. They occasionally get vague questions that would take an hour to explain and "read the source" is the best answer.
No I didn't realize they are one in the same. Perhaps a better way to have put it would have been to say that the mplayer/mencdoer user lists seemed to be a more comfortable environment in which to learn. Hence my asking a rather vague question here :-). In the end I am extremely grateful for both projects. I've seen some pretty high price tags on much less capable software. Back to my initial question, I vaguely remember this topic coming up in the past. I've searched my usual haunts with no luck. If I remember correctly, the general consensus was that the quality loss was less on the y. The reason is what I was hoping to find.. or re-find rather. These days I take a good deal more notes. Thoughts? Speculations? Steven On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 12:29 AM, Scott W. Larson <scowl@wballphotos.com>wrote:
On 11/02/2013 06:55 PM, Carl Eugen Hoyos wrote:
Steven Miller <srmj.ml <at> gmail.com> writes:
I don't think I've ever seen that response with
mplayer/mencoder.
You do realize that they are the same persons?
There are many more contributors to FFmpeg than mplayer and many of the old mplayer developers only work on FFmeg now. But I don't know what Steven is talking about. They occasionally get vague questions that would take an hour to explain and "read the source" is the best answer.
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On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 02:09:05PM -0500, Steven Miller wrote:
Back to my initial question, I vaguely remember this topic coming up in the past. I've searched my usual haunts with no luck. If I remember correctly, the general consensus was that the quality loss was less on the y. The reason is what I was hoping to find.. or re-find rather. These days I take a good deal more notes.
Thoughts? Speculations?
Analog displays like TVs and CRT strictly speaking do not have a horizontal resolution, but only a vertical one. Also, for aspect scaling (e.g. for displaying a DVD on a LCD) it is customary to scale the x resolution. Since in addition the horizontal resolution is usually higher, I'd expect you'd generally risk fewer artefacts by scaling horizontally even for digital displays.
Thanks much for your thoughts! On Sun, Nov 3, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Reimar Döffinger <Reimar.Doeffinger@gmx.de>wrote:
Back to my initial question, I vaguely remember this topic coming up in
On Sun, Nov 03, 2013 at 02:09:05PM -0500, Steven Miller wrote: the
past. I've searched my usual haunts with no luck. If I remember correctly, the general consensus was that the quality loss was less on the y. The reason is what I was hoping to find.. or re-find rather. These days I take a good deal more notes.
Thoughts? Speculations?
Analog displays like TVs and CRT strictly speaking do not have a horizontal resolution, but only a vertical one. Also, for aspect scaling (e.g. for displaying a DVD on a LCD) it is customary to scale the x resolution. Since in addition the horizontal resolution is usually higher, I'd expect you'd generally risk fewer artefacts by scaling horizontally even for digital displays. _______________________________________________ MEncoder-users mailing list MEncoder-users@mplayerhq.hu https://lists.mplayerhq.hu/mailman/listinfo/mencoder-users
participants (7)
-
Andrew Udvare -
Carl Eugen Hoyos -
Grozdan -
Peter -
Reimar Döffinger -
Scott W. Larson -
Steven Miller