Re: [MEncoder-users] High quality encoding of anime
And the reason the quality is so bad is because he's failing to inverse-telecine it (which may not be possible if it was converted NTSC->PAL in some of the usual ways..)
Rich
Hi everybody, Thanks for letting me now about this "particularity" of Anime PAL DVDs. I have read the docs in www.animemusicvideos.org and I think I understood its contents. Unfortunately, its seems that my DVDs have suffered from this crappy conversion, and I reckon they are so messed up it is impossible to "unmess" them. I feel robbed. Still, this leaves me with a couple of questions which I hope someone will be kind enough to answer: 1) Is one better off buying NTSC DVDs for Anime? What about american animation such as the Simpsons, or even non-animated american TV series? 2) Is there any website that keeps track of these crappy DVD releases? As a consumer, I would like to know. 3) Since the originals are 24fps, why are not the PAL releases just slightly "sped up" versions of the original, like with cinema? Is this an example of greedy and clueless publishers? Thanks in advance for your help, Jean __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 04:31:24AM -0700, Jean Hoderd wrote:
And the reason the quality is so bad is because he's failing to inverse-telecine it (which may not be possible if it was converted NTSC->PAL in some of the usual ways..)
Rich
Hi everybody,
Thanks for letting me now about this "particularity" of Anime PAL DVDs. I have read the docs in www.animemusicvideos.org and I think I understood its contents. Unfortunately, its seems that my DVDs have suffered from this crappy conversion, and I reckon they are so messed up it is impossible to "unmess" them. I feel robbed.
Yes. :( That's why lots of us get frustrated with buying DVDs. You spend lots of money, only to get something horribly broken that takes hours of manual tweaking to fix, if it's even possible to fix at all. Whereas the DVD-rips released on the internet have already been fixed (volunteer "thieves" spent hundreds of hours of their own time to release something non-broken) and are of vastly superior quality...
Still, this leaves me with a couple of questions which I hope someone will be kind enough to answer:
1) Is one better off buying NTSC DVDs for Anime? What about american animation such as the Simpsons, or even non-animated american TV series?
You're always best buying all DVDs as close to their original format as possible. For Japanese and American animation, this means NTSC, since both these nations use NTSC. These have already been converted once (from 24fps progressive to 60i telecine), but the conversion process is reversible. (In theory it's also possible to do a reversible process to go straight from the 24p master to PAL, but studios are too cheap to do this and so they just framerate-convert the NTSC instead.)
2) Is there any website that keeps track of these crappy DVD releases? As a consumer, I would like to know.
Unfortunately I don't know. I live in NTSC-land.
3) Since the originals are 24fps, why are not the PAL releases just slightly "sped up" versions of the original, like with cinema? Is this an example of greedy and clueless publishers?
Yes, both. Remastering from the 24p is more expensive than just running the NTSC through a broken framerate-converter made for interlaced video, and the publishers are also too clueless to realize how bad it looks (even on TV it will look bad if you know what to look for). Rich
Hi Jean Hoderd! On 2005.04.20 at 04:31:24 -0700, Jean Hoderd wrote next:
3) Since the originals are 24fps, why are not the PAL releases just slightly "sped up" versions of the original, like with cinema? Is this an example of greedy and clueless publishers?
Also note that some anime is partially/completely 30fps progressive. For example, some scenes in Sin the Movie (Ugh!) are like this, and whole Angel Sanctuary OVA (except for final titles) is progressive. Since motion between drawn scenes is often rendered by computers today, some just render it at 30fps. And now imagine, how could PAL conversion look right? Or ivtc of partially telecined/ partially progressive material, as well... -- Vladimir
On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 08:54:42PM +0400, Vladimir Mosgalin wrote:
Hi Jean Hoderd!
On 2005.04.20 at 04:31:24 -0700, Jean Hoderd wrote next:
3) Since the originals are 24fps, why are not the PAL releases just slightly "sped up" versions of the original, like with cinema? Is this an example of greedy and clueless publishers?
Also note that some anime is partially/completely 30fps progressive. For example, some scenes in Sin the Movie (Ugh!) are like this, and whole Angel Sanctuary OVA (except for final titles) is progressive. Since motion between drawn scenes is often rendered by computers today, some just render it at 30fps.
And now imagine, how could PAL conversion look right? Or ivtc of partially telecined/ partially progressive material, as well...
ivtc of mixed 24p/30p will look exactly right. as for pal you're right, there's no valid way to make a pal version of 30p content. you just have to drop frames, or perhaps drop fields instead. (dropping fields will look smoother on a tv but will be horrible for playback on a progressive device since a huge portion of the frames will be ruined). rich
Jean Hoderd wrote:
Thanks for letting me now about this "particularity" of Anime PAL DVDs. I have read the docs in www.animemusicvideos.org and I think I understood its contents.
Another page that's helped me understand the crazy stuff I've seen on DVD's is this one: http://www.100fps.com/video_resolution_vs_fluidity.htm Take a look at the head-scratching Simpson's example about half way down the page. I guess the extra interlaced frame was supposed to make the motion look smoother.
participants (4)
-
Jean Hoderd -
Rich Felker -
Scott W. Larson -
Vladimir Mosgalin