[MPlayer-DOCS] CVS: homepage/essays/src interview-Arpi.src.en, 1.4, 1.5 interview-Gabucino.src.en, 1.4, 1.5 interview-Pontscho.src.en, 1.4, 1.5
Diego Biurrun CVS
syncmail at mplayerhq.hu
Sat May 14 16:51:56 CEST 2005
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CVS change done by Diego Biurrun CVS
Update of /cvsroot/mplayer/homepage/essays/src
In directory mail:/var2/tmp/cvs-serv19845/essays/src
Modified Files:
interview-Arpi.src.en interview-Gabucino.src.en
interview-Pontscho.src.en
Log Message:
HTML fixes
Index: interview-Arpi.src.en
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mplayer/homepage/essays/src/interview-Arpi.src.en,v
retrieving revision 1.4
retrieving revision 1.5
diff -u -r1.4 -r1.5
--- interview-Arpi.src.en 26 Apr 2004 03:17:36 -0000 1.4
+++ interview-Arpi.src.en 14 May 2005 14:51:54 -0000 1.5
@@ -1,13 +1,20 @@
<!-- content start -->
-<P><font class="header">This interview is an as-is extraction of the interview posted on the <a href="http://www.hup.hu/english">Hungarian Unix portal [www.hup.hu]</A> on 2001.11.16</font></P>
+<!-- $Revision$ -->
-<P><font class="header">This interview is copied here with the permission of the original author, <a href="http://debian.szintezis.hu">trey</A>.</font></P>
+<h1>Interview with Arpi</h1>
-<P><font class="header">Translated to english by Gabucino</font></P>
+<p>
+This interview is an as-is extraction of the interview posted on the
+<a href="http://www.hup.hu/english">Hungarian Unix portal [www.hup.hu]</a>
+on 2001.11.16 and copied here with the permission of the original
+author, <a href="http://debian.szintezis.hu">trey</a>. It was translated
+to English by Gabucino.
+</p>
-<font class="text" color="#505050">I've already written numerous articles on
+<p>
+I've already written numerous articles on
this site about MPlayer. In one of them I claimed it's the fastest, most
usable MOVIE player for Linux/Unix. It's also famous, known in every single
corner of the world (not joking). In my latest article I also wrote that
@@ -15,33 +22,44 @@
we Hungarians should be proud of the projects which gain us fame all around
the globe. Thus I decided to make an interview with the creator and main
programmer of MPlayer, Árpád Gereöffy (A'rpi). I've asked him about
- quite some topics: GPL, MPlayer's history, development, etc. <br><br>
+ quite some topics: GPL, MPlayer's history, development, etc.
+</p>
-Let's see:<br><br><br><b>UP:</b> When did you start programming? Where did the
- idea to write a MOVIE player come from?<br><br>
-
-<b>A'rpi:</b> These are two questions :)<br>
-<br>
-1.: Well that was a long time ago, at my age of 10, on c64 :). (Like Pontscho,
+<p>
+Let's see:
+</p>
+
+<dl>
+
+<dt>UP:</dt>
+<dd>When did you start programming? Where did the
+ idea to write a MOVIE player come from?</dd>
+
+<dt>A'rpi:</dt>
+<dd>These are two questions :)
+<ol>
+<li>Well that was a long time ago, at my age of 10, on c64 :). (Like Pontscho,
but he had vic20). I've got bored with the games quickly, and started to
write miscellaneous things, of course not big stuff like MPlayer... I've
been unsatisfied with ready things even at that time, and wanted to rewrite
everything. After all, this is what keeps Linux alive, and evolving. Everyone
- touches into the programs, which in turn gets better.<br><br>
-
-2.: The idea came a year ago. Somebody lent me a VCD, and - needless to say -,
+ touches into the programs, which in turn gets better.</li>
+<li>The idea came a year ago. Somebody lent me a VCD, and - needless to say -,
neither of the current players could cope with it. I wasn't satisfied with
mpegtv anyways, and that was the only working mpeg player available at that
time. So I stayed with the well-working method: let's rewrite one :) My
victim was XMPS, I've spent a lot of time (1 week :)) fixing bugs, and at
the end I realized that the codec (SMPEG) was bad, so all is in vain.
- Plan "B": let's write one. You know what happened :) <br>
-
-<br>
-<b>UP:</b> Who develops MPlayer? Who are the team members, and what
- their tasks are?<br><br>
+ Plan "B": let's write one. You know what happened :)</li>
+</ol>
+</dd>
+
+<dt>UP:</dt>
+<dd>Who develops MPlayer? Who are the team members, and what
+ their tasks are?</dd>
-<b>A'rpi:</b> Well that's a complicated question. As with the opensource
+<dt>A'rpi:</dt>
+<dd>Well that's a complicated question. As with the opensource
projects in general, this one also has much (several hundred!) developers,
most of them submit only few line fixes, but those are also very helpful!
I would split the "team" to 3 parts: core members - this is their main
@@ -49,30 +67,26 @@
send patches, developing smaller parts of the code, and the "outsiders"
who don't have anything to do with MPlayer, but write libs which we use,
and which are essential in out progress. The developers' list is available
- in the documentation, so I'd just outline the most active core members here:<br><br>
-
-Gabucino - documentation and homepage maintainer and translator, user-whacker,
- IRC admin, morale decreaser, and the winner of the face compo, btw :)
-<br><br>
-Pontscho - GUI hacker, master of the CVS :)
-<br><br>
-LGB - rewrite-o-maniac Debian + GPL fan, part-time DVD store :)
-<br><br>
-Szabi - parser generator :)
-<br><br>
-Atmos - SDL fan, windows porter :)
-<br><br>
-Nick Kurshev & Michael Niedermayer - MMX/3DNow/SSE gurus, mostly they are
- responsible for MPlayer's speed
-<br>
-
-<br>
-
-<b>UP:</b> Strange that although most of the team and even you are hungarians,
- you are very rare to be heard from in Hungary. What could be the reason?
-<br><br>
-<b>A'rpi:</b> Maybe because we aren't politics, and we have nothing in common
- with the oil case :)
+ in the documentation, so I'd just outline the most active core members here:
+<ul>
+<li>Gabucino - documentation and homepage maintainer and translator, user-whacker,
+ IRC admin, morale decreaser, and the winner of the face compo, btw :)</li>
+<li>Pontscho - GUI hacker, master of the CVS :)</li>
+<li>LGB - rewrite-o-maniac Debian + GPL fan, part-time DVD store :)</li>
+<li>Szabi - parser generator :)</li>
+<li>Atmos - SDL fan, windows porter :)</li>
+<li>Nick Kurshev & Michael Niedermayer - MMX/3DNow/SSE gurus, mostly they are
+ responsible for MPlayer's speed</li>
+</ul>
+</dd>
+
+<dt>UP:</dt>
+<dd>Strange that although most of the team and even you are hungarians,
+you are very rare to be heard from in Hungary. What could be the reason?</dd>
+
+<dt>A'rpi:</dt>
+<dd>Maybe because we aren't politics, and we have nothing in common
+with the oil case :)
<br>
But seriously: MPlayer is a pretty new program (1 years old), people have just
started using it, and this is the first big project for most of us - apart from
@@ -80,13 +94,14 @@
bothered. Now all of them want interviews... On the other hand, even most of
the users don't know that it's from Hungary. The reason for this is maybe
that we propagate the program, not us :)
-<br>
+</dd>
-<br>
-<b>UP:</b> There are multiple MOVIE players for Linux/Unix, like for example
- Xine. What makes MPlayer differ from the other players?
-<br><br>
-<b>A'rpi:</b> Well a year ago my answer would just be: this one works. This
+<dt>UP:</dt>
+<dd>There are multiple MOVIE players for Linux/Unix, like for example
+Xine. What makes MPlayer differ from the other players?</dd>
+
+<dt>A'rpi:</dt>
+<dd>Well a year ago my answer would just be: this one works. This
one year was very active in linux multimedia, a lot of players have born
from nearly nothing, and then disappeared according to the laws of the
evolution. Either of he players still actively maintained are good, but
@@ -98,13 +113,14 @@
This has changed now, but bugreports like "the audio was synced only with
MPlayer" are frequent even now. Nowadays we grew above the other players
in supported platforms, output devices, and fileformats.
-<br>
+</dd>
-<br>
-<b>UP:</b> What are your plans with MPlayer? What new features are you working on now?
-<br><br>
-<b>A'rpi:</b> Plans? World domination. :)
-<br>
+<dt>UP:</dt>
+<dd>What are your plans with MPlayer? What new features are you
+working on now?</dd>
+
+<dt>A'rpi:</dt>
+<dd>Plans? World domination. :)<br>
We are developing three big things now: TV cards' support (so MPlayer will be
usable also for TV watching, using the supported output devices). Mostly Alex
is working on this. The other is the MEncoder. This is a converter/encoder
@@ -117,13 +133,14 @@
give up either.
<br>
And the documentation will also be rewritten, as always :)
-<br>
+</dd>
-<br>
-<b>UP:</b> Where can the MPlayer users go with their problems? Is there an
-on-line forum or iRC channel where they can get help?
-<br><br>
-<b>A'rpi:</b> On IRC there is the #mplayer channel, but it's a very "lonely"
+<dt>UP:</dt>
+<dd>Where can the MPlayer users go with their problems? Is there an
+on-line forum or iRC channel where they can get help?</dd>
+
+<dt>A'rpi:</dt>
+<dd>On IRC there is the #mplayer channel, but it's a very "lonely"
place as far as I know. If the user wants fast and usable answer, I recommend
reading the appropriate documentation (bugreports.html), and then writing
to the mplayer-users mailing list. Neither us, or the other recipients of the
@@ -132,23 +149,25 @@
according to user questions, thus in case of problems it's a must-read!
The list's language is english by the way, because there hasn't been much
requests for a hungarian list.
-<br>
+</dd>
-<br>
-<b>UP:</b> Is it possible for someone would like to join the development, or
-is it closed?
-<br><br>
-<b>A'rpi:</b> Not at all closed. Anyone can send patches, of course according
+<dt>UP:</dt>
+<dd>Is it possible for someone would like to join the development, or
+is it closed?</dd>
+
+<dt>A'rpi:</dt>
+<dd>Not at all closed. Anyone can send patches, of course according
to the rules (see tech documentation), and if we checked it's fine, we
commit it. After more good patches the submitter is offered the CVS write,
though often we felt sorry for this afterwards.
-<br>
+</dd>
+
+<dt>UP:</dt>
+<dd>I heard you hate the GPL. Could you explain the reason?</dd>
+<dt>A'rpi:</dt>
+<dd>The reason is: Gabucino ;)
<br>
-<b>UP:</b> I heard you hate the GPL. Could you explain the reason?
-<br><br>
-<b>A'rpi:</b> The reason is: Gabucino ;)
-<br><br>
The "hate" is a bit harsh, let's just say I don't agree with it. Why? The GPL
doesn't allow using non-GPL licensed codes in GPL programs. This gives us big
bother, because half the code is GPL, the other half is not. Last time the
@@ -157,57 +176,62 @@
manufacturers just can't release the source, due to license of used
technologies) and users (they can't compile such drivers into the kernel, only
module).
-<br>
+</dd>
-<br>
-<b>UP:</b> Something was removed from the MPlayer homepage. It was about the
-gcc 2.96 and was removed due to RedHat's request. Could you explain this?
-<br><br>
-<b>A'rpi:</b> We've been asked what our problem is with gcc 2.96 (mainly
+<dt>UP:</dt>
+<dd>Something was removed from the MPlayer homepage. It was about the
+gcc 2.96 and was removed due to RedHat's request. Could you explain this?</dd>
+
+<dt>A'rpi:</dt>
+<dd>We've been asked what our problem is with gcc 2.96 (mainly
because such version does not exist, at least not on GNU site, and it compiles
broken code in numerous ocassions, or doesn't compile at all). We got bored
with answering so we rather wrote a section about this into the documentation,
and part of this went to the homepage as well. RedHat didn't like it though,
they said we decrease their reputation and we can be sued for it :(
-<br>
+</dd>
-<br>
-<b>UP:</b> I saw there was a window$ port of MPlayer. Many people didn't like
-it, could you tell me about this?
-<br><br>
-<b>A'rpi:</b> This was only for a joke, we don't intend to release or
+<dt>UP:</dt>
+<dd>I saw there was a window$ port of MPlayer. Many people didn't like
+it, could you tell me about this?</dd>
+
+<dt>A'rpi:</dt>
+<dd>This was only for a joke, we don't intend to release or
continue it. Atmos was too bored on an afternoon, and he messed and messed
with cygwin and objdump until he got a minimal MPlayer compile on windows.
It was unusable as there was no optimized code in it, but worth to take
a screenshot ;)
-<br>
+</dd>
-<br>
-<b>UP:</B> In the latest version the MPlayer has a GUI. Did it went in on
-user request or will this always be implemented?
-<br><br>
-<b>A'rpi:</b> It was done on users' nagging, and of course we'll develop it
+<dt>UP:</dt>
+<dd>In the latest version the MPlayer has a GUI. Did it went in on
+user request or will this always be implemented?</dd>
+
+<dt>A'rpi:</dt>
+<dd>It was done on users' nagging, and of course we'll develop it
further. It's worth to check the skins, some of them can concur with windows
players.
-<br>
+</dd>
-<br>
-<b>UP:</b> How much are you interested in users questions?
-<br><br>
-<b>A'rpi:</b> Barely. Interesting questions are asked very rarely because
+<dt>UP:</dt>
+<dd>How much are you interested in users questions?</dd>
+
+<dt>A'rpi:</dt>
+<dd>Barely. Interesting questions are asked very rarely because
those things are already implemented, or still have technical reasons for
being not. For lame ones we answer: ok, write it and send the patch. Then
either someone writes it, or it's forgotten :)
<br>
+A'rpi / Astral & ESP-team
+</dd>
-<br>
-A'rpi / Astral & ESP-team<br><br><br>
+</dl>
+<p>
So this was the interview, thanks to A'rpi for it, particularly for the
quick response ( I wrote the mail at 22pm, I got the answer at 1am =] ). I
hope this helped spreading MPlayer. I'll be announcing the new features
-of this project as before.<br><br></font><br>
-<br>
+of this project as before.
+</p>
<!-- content end -->
-
Index: interview-Gabucino.src.en
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mplayer/homepage/essays/src/interview-Gabucino.src.en,v
retrieving revision 1.4
retrieving revision 1.5
diff -u -r1.4 -r1.5
--- interview-Gabucino.src.en 26 Apr 2004 03:17:36 -0000 1.4
+++ interview-Gabucino.src.en 14 May 2005 14:51:54 -0000 1.5
@@ -1,220 +1,290 @@
<!-- content start -->
-<P><font class="header">This interview is an as-is extraction of the interview posted on the <a href="http://www.hup.hu/english">Hungarian Unix portal [www.hup.hu]</A> on 2002.03.26</font></P>
+<!-- $Revision$ -->
-<P><font class="header">This interview is copied here with the permission of the original author, <a href="http://debian.szintezis.hu">trey</A>.</font></P>
+<h1>Interview with Gabucino</h1>
-<P><font class="header">Translated to english by Gabucino</font></P>
+<p>
+This interview is an as-is extraction of the interview posted on the
+<a href="http://www.hup.hu/english">Hungarian Unix portal [www.hup.hu]</a>
+on 2002.13.26 and copied here with the permission of the original
+author, <a href="http://debian.szintezis.hu">trey</a>. It was translated
+to English by Gabucino.
+</p>
-<font class="text" color="#505050">A lot of us use MPlayer. We watch our
+<p>
+A lot of us use MPlayer. We watch our
favourite DivX, DVD or other movies with it. If I ever had any problem with
the compilation, I took a look at the documentation, and found the answer
by 99% probability. MPlayer's documentation being in this state and being
often updated (?) is Gabucino's merit. I've mailed him last night, asking
a few questions that bothered me. Let's see his answers:
-<br><br>
+</p>
-trey: Could you tell a few things about yourself (school, work, connection
- to computers)?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: I could never sanely answer this question :) School: nope, work: yes.
+<dl>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Could you tell a few things about yourself (school, work, connection
+to computers)?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>I could never sanely answer this question :) School: nope, work: yes.
Computers: I've started at the age of 5 on a Plus/4, since then I had 286, 386,
486, and now I a K6/2. So now that I spoke about my 15+5 years... ;) Well all
that's worth to mention in this topic is my love for old computers. After all
there's a 386 laptop (Linux), 486/EGA (Linux), and a 286 (Minix) scattered
around me right now... Oh, and the K6/2 is the dream configuration for me :)
MPlayer plays everything on it (with a Matrox card, of course) - the 3D
-performance doesn't bother me, I prefer (very) old games.<br>
-<br>
-trey: Why did you choose Linux?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: Because the xMach is not ready yet ;) Jokes apart, I'm not
+performance doesn't bother me, I prefer (very) old games.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Why did you choose Linux?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>Because the xMach is not ready yet ;) Jokes apart, I'm not
satisfied with the Linux (though you didn't ask but I use LFS), the last
"stable" kernel was the 2.4.9 for me, pity it has secholes.. I have restrains
for a system which developers think gcc 2.96 an useful thing.. (Linus, Cox)
-<br><br>
-trey: How did you meet A'rpi, and the others?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: I've been using the avifile 0.49 at that time, and I noticed that
+</dd>
+
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>How did you meet A'rpi, and the others?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>I've been using the avifile 0.49 at that time, and I noticed that
arpi guy constantly mailing on its list (and on 3 other lists too), so I
though I'd take a look at that MPlayer he's coding.. Then I reported bugs,
- afterwards it's history ;)<br>
-<br>
-trey: When did you join the MPlayer project?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: Hmm.. I think about 0.11pre10somewhere :)<br>
-<br>
-trey: How does the development happen? Could you tell about an average day
- when you all work actively?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: Hard to answer this question, because it depends. If we're thinking
+ afterwards it's history ;)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>When did you join the MPlayer project?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>Hmm.. I think about 0.11pre10somewhere :)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>How does the development happen? Could you tell about an average day
+ when you all work actively?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>Hard to answer this question, because it depends. If we're thinking
about "inner" (hungarian) developers and their doings, that's talked about
on the IRC. And reversed in CVS ;) Other developers are sending patches
on the dev-eng list, where A'rpi verifies/criticizes/forgets/commits them
- (the latter is rare;) .. And I wrote the documentation for them.<br>
-<br>
-trey: You write the documentation of MPlayer. How are these pages made?
+ (the latter is rare;) .. And I wrote the documentation for them.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>You write the documentation of MPlayer. How are these pages made?
Obviously you have to know everything about the technical details so
- good man pages and tutorials will be made.<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: I have to know about the workings, the structure of MPlayer, I mean
+ good man pages and tutorials will be made.</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>I have to know about the workings, the structure of MPlayer, I mean
the connectivity of its parts (I won't write sentences like this ever again;).
Anyway everything just comes out by itself.. The documentation is made with
joe :) No special technique, I usually write my ideas on a TODO list, and
when I get bored I document them all. Exceptions from this rule are the
important changes, and those few days before release, when even the irclog's
size increases dramatically ;) And the rereading of the dox (well, should
- be;), etc..<br>
-<br>
-trey: The documentation is well-written, usable. But I think there's too much
+ be;), etc..</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>The documentation is well-written, usable. But I think there's too much
RTFM inside, and its style is belittling sometimes. What's your opinion
- about this?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: Dirty accusation :) Well it was a bit freestyle some time ago,
- but it has changed since. Anybody spreading this has never RTFMed :)<br>
-<br>
-trey: Last year Barr's article caused a major uproar. He talked belittling
- about MPlayer's documentation, etc. How did you feel about this?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: Bad. I hate when I see I'm right, and there ARE many lame Linux
- users.. Like me ;))<br>
-<br>
-trey: Did it cast back you in you work? And the others?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: It took us time to flame on the lists ;) Anyway nobody cared more
- than this.<br>
-<br>
-trey: I've already asked Pontscho this, but what is the reason for this
+ about this?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>Dirty accusation :) Well it was a bit freestyle some time ago,
+ but it has changed since. Anybody spreading this has never RTFMed :)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Last year Barr's article caused a major uproar. He talked belittling
+ about MPlayer's documentation, etc. How did you feel about this?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>Bad. I hate when I see I'm right, and there ARE many lame Linux
+ users.. Like me ;))</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Did it cast back you in you work? And the others?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>It took us time to flame on the lists ;) Anyway nobody cared more
+ than this.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>I've already asked Pontscho this, but what is the reason for this
silence around MPlayer? He said there'll be a release. When will this
- occur exactly? Is it going to be some big version number change?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: Yes, probably it'll be 1.0, but surely a big step. When? Well
+ occur exactly? Is it going to be some big version number change?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>Yes, probably it'll be 1.0, but surely a big step. When? Well
looking at the great number of bugreports, it won't be ready until Apr 1st :)
Unfortunately. Anyway the reason is that there have been numerous large
- changes in the code lately, and we have to fix their consequences.<br>
-<br>
-trey: A few days ago Nick Kurshev has forked, and started a new project
+ changes in the code lately, and we have to fix their consequences.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>A few days ago Nick Kurshev has forked, and started a new project
called MPlayerXP. What were the reasons for his decision? Won't this cast
- MPlayer's development back?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: Nick went mad :) I think this because he became GPL maniac :)
- It won't cast back IMHO. See the next question.<br>
-<br>
-trey: The strenght of the MPlayer is being not multithreaded. It's unique by
- running on one thread. What is the meaning of this?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: It runs on one thread :) man ps :) I mean if you take a look at it,
+ MPlayer's development back?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>Nick went mad :) I think this because he became GPL maniac :)
+ It won't cast back IMHO. See the next question.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>The strenght of the MPlayer is being not multithreaded. It's unique by
+ running on one thread. What is the meaning of this?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>It runs on one thread :) man ps :) I mean if you take a look at it,
you see only 1 mplayer process, not 20. Like xine, I've just read their list,
even pointing over a GUI button spawns a new process (thread:) And it
forgets to kill it currently :) So every player runs on multiple threads BUT
MPlayer. And we all know which one is more stable. (of course this is
- demagogy, but it's true :)<br>
-<br>
-trey: According to a mail of Kurshev, if A'rpi accepts his ideas, he's
+ demagogy, but it's true :)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>According to a mail of Kurshev, if A'rpi accepts his ideas, he's
willing to rejoin the MPlayer team, and will help to make the NO.1 movie
- player on the earth. Do you see any chance for this?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: No. Anyways I tried to test MPlayerXP, but it didn't compile :) And
+ player on the earth. Do you see any chance for this?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>No. Anyways I tried to test MPlayerXP, but it didn't compile :) And
as I said, MPlayer already plays everything on this lousy K6/2-500, DVD, DivX,
- all.<br>
-<br>
-trey: What do you think could be improved in MPlayer?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: I asked the very same question from myself at every release,
+ all.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>What do you think could be improved in MPlayer?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>I asked the very same question from myself at every release,
I won't do it again :) Anyway the direct render is complete, and is deadly..
Practically even a 300Mhz K6 will be enough instead of an 500Mhz. I mean,
as soon as the libavcodec supports it. So MPlayer is the god! Give 110% of
- your tax to MPlayer's underpaid coders, doxwriters! Etc etc.. ;)<br>
-<br>
-trey: Do you work on other projects, or only on MPlayer?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: Only...<br>
-<br>
-trey: A few months ago the design of your homepages changed. Many think the
- previous was better. Do you like the current one?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: I do :) Anyway the best was my (oooold) design, it's a pity noone
+ your tax to MPlayer's underpaid coders, doxwriters! Etc etc.. ;)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Do you work on other projects, or only on MPlayer?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>Only...</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>A few months ago the design of your homepages changed. Many think the
+ previous was better. Do you like the current one?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>I do :) Anyway the best was my (oooold) design, it's a pity noone
liked that except me :) BTW the new design is ready, but we'll wait for
- the release (as always).<br>
-<br>
-trey: If you check movie players on Linux, which one do you think is
- worth mentioning, or contains neat stuff?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: There's that MPlayerXP, and it contains that whaddyacallit player..
- Ah, MPlayer! Pity they modified it :))<br>
-<br>
-trey: Do you keep an eye on other players' features? Do you have rivals?
+ the release (as always).</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>If you check movie players on Linux, which one do you think is
+ worth mentioning, or contains neat stuff?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>There's that MPlayerXP, and it contains that whaddyacallit player..
+ Ah, MPlayer! Pity they modified it :))</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Do you keep an eye on other players' features? Do you have rivals?
I mean, when XYPlayer implements "halfballeffect-accelerator-turboenhancement",
- do you hurry to implement the same thing?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: We keep an eye on what is xine just steal^H^H^H^H^Hporting from us ;))
+ do you hurry to implement the same thing?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>We keep an eye on what is xine just steal^H^H^H^H^Hporting from us ;))
Also due of MPlayer being non-GPL, and xine is.. Anyway I couldn't tell any
feature we ported from them since their directshow loader code in C. And
- that was pretty long ago ;)<br>
-<br>
-trey: Many people asked if there'll be a Windows port of MPlayer. What's the
- status?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: "Will be"?? It WAS! :) Anyway I think it's compilable on windowz,
+ that was pretty long ago ;)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Many people asked if there'll be a Windows port of MPlayer. What's the
+ status?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>"Will be"?? It WAS! :) Anyway I think it's compilable on windowz,
though probably not easy, and Vidix doesn't run on it yet. But the last
thing I'd think of would be flashing big text proclaiming a vindoz port,
InstallShield exe, etc.. After all, what could we boast to the
- winnyozusers then? ;)<br>
-<br>
-trey: What are your other tasks in the project, apart documentation writing?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: Being A'rpi's target ;)<br>
-<br>
-trey: How do you mean that? Is there a problem around the project?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: You can read about it in the dev-eng archives :) Anyway nothing
- special, he just felt I don't update the doc regularly.<br>
-<br>
-trey: You seem to be having some problems with linux lately =). What's the
- problem with it?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: I could answer your second question in loong sentences (I won't:),
- but I don't understand who's spreading rumors about me? :)<br>
-<br>
-trey: What tools do you use when you work (hardware, software)?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: 386, because its LCD is nice (better than this 10 years old 14" :),
+ winnyozusers then? ;)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>What are your other tasks in the project, apart documentation writing?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>Being A'rpi's target ;)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>How do you mean that? Is there a problem around the project?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>You can read about it in the dev-eng archives :) Anyway nothing
+ special, he just felt I don't update the doc regularly.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>You seem to be having some problems with linux lately =). What's the
+ problem with it?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>I could answer your second question in loong sentences (I won't:),
+ but I don't understand who's spreading rumors about me? :)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>What tools do you use when you work (hardware, software)?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>386, because its LCD is nice (better than this 10 years old 14" :),
joe on eterm because joe rulez, and eterm is transparent, and windowmaker
- because it's godly.<br>
-<br>
-trey: I've read on mplayer-dev-eng about you want to convert the documentation
+ because it's godly.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>I've read on mplayer-dev-eng about you want to convert the documentation
into another format. There was a little disagreement about that. Care to
- explain?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: There wasn't. :) It'll be converted to SGML, that's sure. It also
- fits the plebs' needs. :)<br>
-<br>
-trey: What do you do apart MPlayer?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: Let perversion alone ;) Whops, nothing else remained.<br>
-<br>
-(meanwhile I read the mplayer-dev-eng list archives - trey.)<br>
-<br>
-trey: A few days ago A'rpi complained that you rarely maintain the
+ explain?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>There wasn't. :) It'll be converted to SGML, that's sure. It also
+ fits the plebs' needs. :)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>What do you do apart MPlayer?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>Let perversion alone ;) Whops, nothing else remained.</dd>
+
+</dl>
+
+<p>
+(meanwhile I read the mplayer-dev-eng list archives - trey.)
+</p>
+
+<dl>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>A few days ago A'rpi complained that you rarely maintain the
documentation, and he's searching for new co- or maintainer for this
- task. There were several mails about this. How are the things now?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: I though of quitting, then I realized that A'rpi is not the
- targeted reader community, and the users never complained.<br>
-<br>
-trey: For an outsider it the MPlayer project would seem to be falling apart.
- Am I mistaken?<br>
-<br>
-Gabucino: That's also my opinion. Anyway don't feel sorry for Nick, he'll
+ task. There were several mails about this. How are the things now?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>I though of quitting, then I realized that A'rpi is not the
+ targeted reader community, and the users never complained.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>For an outsider it the MPlayer project would seem to be falling apart.
+ Am I mistaken?</dd>
+
+<dt>Gabucino:</dt>
+<dd>That's also my opinion. Anyway don't feel sorry for Nick, he'll
want to come back :) Unfortunately, lately A'rpi has been flaming people more
than usual.. Like me, though he should know that it's futile to flame against
me ;) In any case, let's hope direct render will be ready before he gets
- nerve breakdown ;)<br>
-<br>
--- <br>
-Gabucino<br><br></font><br>
-<br>
+ nerve breakdown ;)</dd>
+
+</dl>
+
<!-- content end -->
Index: interview-Pontscho.src.en
===================================================================
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retrieving revision 1.4
retrieving revision 1.5
diff -u -r1.4 -r1.5
--- interview-Pontscho.src.en 26 Apr 2004 03:17:36 -0000 1.4
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@@ -1,198 +1,251 @@
<!-- content start -->
-<P><font class="header">This interview is an as-is extraction of the interview posted on the <a href="http://www.hup.hu/english">Hungarian Unix portal [www.hup.hu]</A> on 2002.03.04</font></P>
+<!-- $Revision$ -->
-<P><font class="header">This interview is copied here with the permission of the original author, <a href="http://debian.szintezis.hu">trey</A>.</font></P>
+<h1>Interview with Pontscho</h1>
-<P><font class="header">Translated to english by Gabucino</font></P>
+<p>
+This interview is an as-is extraction of the interview posted on the
+<a href="http://www.hup.hu/english">Hungarian Unix portal [www.hup.hu]</a>
+on 2002.03.04 and copied here with the permission of the original
+author, <a href="http://debian.szintezis.hu">trey</a>. It was translated
+to English by Gabucino.
+</p>
-<font class="text"><br>A few months ago I talked with A'rpi - the author of
+<p>
+A few months ago I talked with A'rpi - the author of
MPlayer - about how he began MPlayer, and what made him make the best
Media Player. Now I talked with Pontscho (Ponekker Zoltán, .so =)),
the creator of MPlayer's graphical interface.
-<br><br>
+</p>
+
+<p>
In the meantime there have been changes around MPlayer, for which I
-tried to seek answers.<br>
-<br>
-<br>
-trey: Could you tell us a bit about yourself (school, programming past, etc.)?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: Hm. I'm a 24 years old "old fox" ;). I graduated as medical
+tried to seek answers.
+</p>
+
+<dl>
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Could you tell us a bit about yourself (school, programming past, etc.)?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>Hm. I'm a 24 years old "old fox" ;). I graduated as medical
mechanical technician and maintainer. My first computer was a Commodore VIC-20.
For two weeks, because - although it's impossible to kill the machine from
keyboard - I did. Then came a C64, and the usual XT, etc. Since a few years
-I'm member of fresh!mindworkz, as coder.
-<br><br>
-trey: How did you start using Linux? Why did you choose Linux?<br><br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: I loved hacking things at that time. Nowadays I'm bored with the
+I'm member of fresh!mindworkz, as coder.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>How did you start using Linux? Why did you choose Linux?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>I loved hacking things at that time. Nowadays I'm bored with the
continuous messing to make for example an ISDN modem working. I've stayed
with it for the stability (although the strangest things occur sometims ...).
- And because I can work on cross-platforms.<br>
-<br>
-trey: You've mentioned you are member of a coder team. Is this still the
+And because I can work on cross-platforms.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>You've mentioned you are member of a coder team. Is this still the
"who can code better 4K asm demo" thing from the old times? I though the
-scene era is over.<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: No :) Many people say the scene is dead, but it's not. Anyway
- you're talking about the 4k intro category ;)<br>
-<br>
-trey: The demos are still written under DOS?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: Only mazochists code under DOS now :) But rather nobody.<br>
-<br>
-trey: I've heard that demos can't really be written under Linux. What is
- its limitation?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: That's stupid. Everything is present for a good demo. However, those
+scene era is over.</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>No :) Many people say the scene is dead, but it's not. Anyway
+you're talking about the 4k intro category ;)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>The demos are still written under DOS?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>Only mazochists code under DOS now :) But rather nobody.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>I've heard that demos can't really be written under Linux. What is
+its limitation?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>That's stupid. Everything is present for a good demo. However, those
"compatible" window managers really gives us a hard time. There are bunch
of JPEG loaders, sound systems are available, and also hell-a-lot of HW
accelerated OpenGL is available. It's just that Linux desktop isn't really
frequent on the scene. Maybe I could count on one hand how many teams
publish Linux demo/intros. We'd like to change this, theoretically the new
- Fresh3D engine will have Linux support.<br>
+Fresh3D engine will have Linux support.
<br>
BTW A'rpi is a member of the Astral team, they code their demos primarily under
-Linux, and port to win32 later.<br>
-<br>
-trey: Are there any demos that we know from before, and are connected to you?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: Hm. Yes, but they don't run under Linux, The FPC's X compatibility is
+Linux, and port to win32 later.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Are there any demos that we know from before, and are connected to you?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>Hm. Yes, but they don't run under Linux, The FPC's X compatibility is
nil, the gcc compiled objects' linkability is beneath all criticism. Not
under Linux. Under Win32. So it's very hard to work under crossplatform
with it. Under Win32, there's the 54 series in which I've participated.
(Konplex54, Synbolik54, Konputer 54, 54). And I had a party winner 4k
some years ago. (Written in dosemu :) I'd like to port Konplex54 to Linux,
- amongst all Fresh stuff I like that one the most.<br>
-<br>
-trey: When and how did you join the MPlayer development?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: As I recall, in 2000, on the Conference7007 (a party), A'rpi told
+amongst all Fresh stuff I like that one the most.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>When and how did you join the MPlayer development?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>As I recall, in 2000, on the Conference7007 (a party), A'rpi told
me he wrote an mpeg1 decoder in 5k with hardware acceleration. I asked him
to send it to me, then we argued it's fscking slow. And it segfaults, etc.
Then I realized I was at fault because I didn't RTFM, and the binary was
optimized to i686, and I had a k6/2. And they don't like each other. So
- the first version on the configure script was written...<br>
-<br>
-trey: What is your exact role in the MPlayer project?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: Good question. Are there roles? :)<br>
-<br>
-trey: What tools do you use when you work? I mean hardware and software
- devices.<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: I have a 450 at 500 AMD K6/2 with a Matrox G400, for years. Tuner card,
+the first version on the configure script was written...</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>What is your exact role in the MPlayer project?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>Good question. Are there roles? :)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>What tools do you use when you work? I mean hardware and software
+devices.</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>I have a 450 at 500 AMD K6/2 with a Matrox G400, for years. Tuner card,
Vortex2, GUS PnP (does anyone remember what is it?:) 384 MB RAM, DVD, stuff
like that. This is what I usually use, and it performs very well. For
example I can watch any DVD movie I'd like to. Apropo... If someone has a
DVD that he grew bored of, please send, because I don't have such, thus
the GUI's DVD support proceeds slowly. :))) Software? DosNavigator, Gimp, gcc
- xnview :)<br>
-<br>
-trey: Do you use other operating systems, Linux aside?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: Yes. Since it's near impossible to make a living of Linux-only programming.<br>
-<br>
-trey: What to do you when you're not developing MPlayer?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: I work into other projects. Sometimes I check out the high school.
- Maybe I'll have to enter the military in some months. Unfortunately.<br>
-<br>
-trey: In his interview A'rpi mentioned you are the GUI hacked, and the master
- of the CVS. What does this mean?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: I code the graphical user interface for MPlayer. Except for some
+xnview :)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Do you use other operating systems, Linux aside?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>Yes. Since it's near impossible to make a living of Linux-only programming.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>What to do you when you're not developing MPlayer?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>I work into other projects. Sometimes I check out the high school.
+Maybe I'll have to enter the military in some months. Unfortunately.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>In his interview A'rpi mentioned you are the GUI hacked, and the master
+of the CVS. What does this mean?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>I code the graphical user interface for MPlayer. Except for some
small changed, the whole is my work. The title "master of CVS" is irony.
Some time ago we and Gabucino (at that time I didn't know anything about CVS)
- messed up our CVS repository on SourceForge :)<br>
-<br>
-trey: Few months ago A'rpi announced he'll just handle the patches and managing
+messed up our CVS repository on SourceForge :)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Few months ago A'rpi announced he'll just handle the patches and managing
the CVS from now, since he doesn't have as much free time as he'd want to.
- How did this affect the project?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: Good question. He just can't stand answering users' stupid questions ;)<br>
-<br>
-trey: Many think the development of MPlayer has slowed down. There has been
+How did this affect the project?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>Good question. He just can't stand answering users' stupid questions ;)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Many think the development of MPlayer has slowed down. There has been
one release this year (MPlayer 0.60 2002. January 02). I heard there are
problems with the CVS version, compilation problems, etc. The homepage
- doesn't change. How do you evaluate this?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: Gabu has just told he's going to commit right now. He was on strike
+doesn't change. How do you evaluate this?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>Gabu has just told he's going to commit right now. He was on strike
until now. Anyways the development hasn't slowed down, but the current changes
are unseen to the users. It's hard to see for the end user that A'rpi has
begun to rewrite the user interface, and also the GUI code was rewritten
- some weeks ago.<br>
-<br>
-trey: As far as I know binary distribution of MPlayer is forbidden (because of
+some weeks ago.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>As far as I know binary distribution of MPlayer is forbidden (because of
speed problems). However I've heard MPlayer's going to be included in the UHU
- Linux. How did you solve UHU inclusion? Do you distribute the source?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: No. Since the UHU team has helped us very much (server, hardware),
+Linux. How did you solve UHU inclusion? Do you distribute the source?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>No. Since the UHU team has helped us very much (server, hardware),
we've mostly overcame the inclusion problem (Don't start celebrating, there
won't be .deb, .rpm packages for a while). As we have daily contact with them,
they can solve the inclusion. But there have been numerous arguments about
- this.<br>
-<br>
-trey: About UHU Linux... A'rpi mentioned you are working together with the
- UHU developers. Why did you choose the UHU Linux?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: Because we sympathize with their efforts. And despite all the rumors,
+this.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>About UHU Linux... A'rpi mentioned you are working together with the
+UHU developers. Why did you choose the UHU Linux?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>Because we sympathize with their efforts. And despite all the rumors,
it's going to be good. They've worked hard, and it became useful. It's a fact,
- it's not for servers yet. However it's perfect for desktops.<br>
-<br>
-trey: I know you're working on a secret project =) Especially as I already
- tested the stuff. Could you fill us on the details? Or is this still a secret?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: :))))) I plan to release it on christmas, especially as it still
+it's not for servers yet. However it's perfect for desktops.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>I know you're working on a secret project =) Especially as I already
+tested the stuff. Could you fill us on the details? Or is this still a secret?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>:))))) I plan to release it on christmas, especially as it still
needs some development. Oh well. It is going to be an installer for MPlayer.
In theory it'll be capable of downloading and compiling the source with the
necessary fonts, skins. But I haven't been able to touch it lately, due to
- short free time.<br>
-<br>
-trey: Where is MPlayer development going? Do you work on new functions, or
- you concentrate on speed optimizations, and cleaning the code?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: Code cleaning. The source is very strange in some places :)<br>
-<br>
-trey: Have you been contacted by other distributions (SuSE, Red Hat, etc),
- with offering to distribute MPlayer?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: The RedHat just flamed us, however we also had our opinions of them,
+short free time.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Where is MPlayer development going? Do you work on new functions, or
+you concentrate on speed optimizations, and cleaning the code?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>Code cleaning. The source is very strange in some places :)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Have you been contacted by other distributions (SuSE, Red Hat, etc),
+with offering to distribute MPlayer?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>The RedHat just flamed us, however we also had our opinions of them,
mostly due to gcc 2.96 ;) A hungarian guy contacted us from SuSE, but the
packability wasn't even as possible as today. (Wow the Godfather has just
- stripped his wife:)<br>
-<br>
-trey: How did the Joe Barr article occur to project members?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: I don't care. Others started flaming :) But nobody really cares about
- articles like this. The stuff is still just hobby.<br>
-<br>
-trey: There was a little mess with the OS2 MPlayer code. According to you the
+stripped his wife:)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>How did the Joe Barr article occur to project members?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>I don't care. Others started flaming :) But nobody really cares about
+articles like this. The stuff is still just hobby.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>There was a little mess with the OS2 MPlayer code. According to you the
russian guy "stole" the code. What was the outcome? Have you managed to
- resolve it?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: Huh I really don't know much about this. I didn't care, and there
- were others to flame 'em :)<br>
-<br>
-trey: What's your opinion about the future? What are the goals?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: Hm. I think it has future. Taking a look at the Freshmeat.net
- "stats". Goals? Good question. I'd like to finish the incomplete GUI
- features (playlist, etc). Also release the Installer. After that, hell knows.<br>
-<br>
-trey: Any comments?<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho: Yes. What's my password on portal.fsn.hu ? :) When will you fix the
- forum? :)<br>
-<br>
+resolve it?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>Huh I really don't know much about this. I didn't care, and there
+were others to flame 'em :)</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>What's your opinion about the future? What are the goals?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>Hm. I think it has future. Taking a look at the Freshmeat.net
+"stats". Goals? Good question. I'd like to finish the incomplete GUI
+features (playlist, etc). Also release the Installer. After that, hell knows.</dd>
+
+<dt>trey:</dt>
+<dd>Any comments?</dd>
+
+<dt>Pontscho:</dt>
+<dd>Yes. What's my password on portal.fsn.hu ? :) When will you fix the
+forum? :)<br>
Anyways, I think MPlayer became a very good software. The documentation is
also amongst the best ones. Far the best amongst average project documentations.
I've also learned much from the code, then used the knowledge in other
-projects. (Many of our first placed demos has ideas from MPlayer code)<br>
-<br>
-Pontscho<br><br>
-</font>
+projects. (Many of our first placed demos has ideas from MPlayer code)</dd>
-<!-- content end -->
+</dl>
+<!-- content end -->
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