[MPlayer-DOCS] CVS: homepage/src news.src.en,1.78,1.79

[Gabucino]

Update of /cvsroot/mplayer/homepage/src
In directory mail:/scsi/2/tmp/cvs-serv24224

Modified Files:
	news.src.en 
Log Message:
kiss #05


Index: news.src.en
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mplayer/homepage/src/news.src.en,v
retrieving revision 1.78
retrieving revision 1.79
diff -u -r1.78 -r1.79
--- news.src.en	6 Jan 2004 23:47:31 -0000	1.78
+++ news.src.en	10 Jan 2004 16:06:32 -0000	1.79
@@ -1,6 +1,276 @@
 <!-- content begin -->
 <font class="bigheader">
 	<br>
+	<a name="kiss05">
+	2004.01.10, Saturday :: Radio interview: Kiss VS MPlayer
+	</a>
+	<br>
+</font>
+<font class="header">
+	posted by Gabucino<br>
+</font>
+<font class="text">
+	<br>
+	The Danish National Radio (<a href="http://dr.dk">http://dr.dk</a>) has
+	made an interview with me (as MPlayer representative), and
+	<a href="http://www.kiss-technology.com">Kiss Technology</a>'s
+	managing director
+	<a href="mailto:peter.wilmar.christensen at kiss-technology.com">Peter Wilmar Christensen</a>.<br>
+	<br>
+	It is going to be broadcasted tonight at 20:35, but it is also
+	downloadable from the Internet right now:
+	<ul>
+		<li><a href="rtsp://real01.dr.dk/p1/harddisk/040108_kiss-vs-mplayer.rm">streaming</a></li>
+		<li><a href="http://mplayerhq.hu/~gabucino/mp-kiss-gabu.rm">downloadable file</a></li>
+	</ul>
+	A written article is <a href="http://www.dr.dk/videnskab/harddisken/artikler/2004/kiss-vs-mplayer.asp">also available</a>,
+	in danish language.<br>
+	<br>
+	We have made a rough english translation of the session (thanks to
+	Anders Rune Jensen). <u>Our commentaries can be found at the bottom</u>.<br>
+	<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> The development of <a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a> was started by a little group of
+Hungarian programmers 3 years ago.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> We needed a program that could play media files under Linux
+and was so unsatisfied with the existing choices that we started doing
+a better alternative - the spokes person for the <a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a>
+programmers Gabucino told.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> <a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a> has reached a wide recognition in the Open Source
+community. Gabucino emphasizes the programs stability and ability to
+play many different movie formats as some of the obvious advantages.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> The trouble with <a href="http://www.kiss-technology.com">Kiss technology</a> started recently when one of
+the MPlayer developers was shopping for a new DVD player
+and went for a product by the Danish company. For fun the programmer
+started looking at the software in the Danish DVD player, the so
+called firmware, and compared it with MPlayers own code. There were
+enough similarities that the case got a closer look and to make the
+<a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a> team angry - Gabucino told.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> The concrete part of the code the the similarities is found
+in is the one controlling the subtitles when playing movies.
+Reality is that the code doesn't contain anything really brilliant, on
+the contrary it's very simple. So Gabucino is puzzled why anyone would
+even bother using the code instead of writing it themselves. He
+suggests that it could be laziness from the programmers side.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> I think it's actually a very normal thing that programmers
+borrow Open Source code because they are to lazy to write it
+themselves. There has been some cases prior to this one which has
+created quite a lot of trouble. I think there are hundreds of
+examples like this one that we just don't hear about - Gabucino told.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> The <a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a> team has published the accusation of the code
+theft on their website and has tried to document it by listing the
+strings in the code which are identical in the two pieces of software.
+According to Gabucino there is so many similarities that it's
+unthinkable that this might be a coincidence.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> Normally this type of code is different depending on who
+implemented it, so when there are so many identical strings it's
+obvious that we're dealing with theft the Hungarians believe.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> GPL or General Public License which <a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a> is licensed under
+is a very widely used Open Source license, which gives the users
+certain rights and certain duties. Long story short it is okay to take
+the code from <a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a> and develop it further as long as the result is
+given back to the community. In the concrete example Gabucino and the
+other Hungarians therefore demands that <a href="http://www.kiss-technology.com">Kiss Technology</a> should release
+the software used in it's DVD players. And makes it clear that it is
+not a matter of getting some money from the Danish company, but a
+matter of fulfilling the requirements of the GPL and releasing the
+software.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> <a href="http://www.kiss-technology.com">Kiss Technology</a> at first didn't react to the Hungarians
+inquiry but after the story began to get large publicity in the
+different net-medias and forums the company this week began to
+investigate the case. There are two main questions, one being whether
+code from <a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a> really is inside the Kiss software and the other
+question being how the licenses of Open Source software should be
+interpreted and administered. Other than being accused of taking code
+from <a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a>, <a href="http://www.kiss-technology.com">Kiss Technology</a> has also been accused of using other
+Open Source software but managing director Peter Wilmar Christensen
+denies all accusations with small requisitions. The DVD player from
+<a href="http://www.kiss-technology.com">Kiss</a> uses a modified version of Linux as it's operating system and
+that part of the software has been released in accordance with the
+licenses. But <a href="http://www.kiss-technology.com">Kiss</a> proclaims that the programs used in the machines on
+top of the operating system, which enables them to play video and
+music files is the companies own and therefore is not required to be
+released the managing director Peter Christensen explains.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Peter:</b> I would say that the is no truth to the accusations. In large
+there has been some interest regarding our applications recently and
+around GPL, which is the software used in the Open Source community
+which requires you to publish the source code if you use it. And there
+has been some interest in some of the programs used on our DVD
+players. Something called libmad and libjpg and than this Hungarian
+company <a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a>. On our DVD players we run Linux which is licensed
+under the GPL, we have on our webpage published the operating system
+so that people can download the improved version of Linux that we use.
+The application layer on top of Linux is proprietary and is not based
+on any GPL code. We doesn't use <a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a>, we use our own player, a
+player like we know from Real Player, Microsoft Media Player is the
+application used to display movies. It is a fundamental thing for our
+player, because it's what we are known for, being able to play a wide
+range of different formats.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> The documentation the Hungarians has presented on their
+website is parts from your code. By simply comparing the strings line
+for line and concludes that they are so identical that this can be no
+coincidence. What is your comment on this?<br>
+<br>
+<b>Peter:</b> We are currently investigating exactly that specific part, how
+that can be and if it's really true what they say. Currently we have
+not investigated it enough to be sure whether or not they are right or
+wrong in their accusations. What is important is that we do not use
+their application. Should there be cases where the code is very much
+alike, we have to look at how that can have happened. But we doubt
+that there is any truth to the accusations. There are a lot of things
+that could have happened, one could imagine that code from our
+community has spread to other communities included the Open Source and
+code originating from our player could accordingly be a part of
+<a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a>, if in fact there is is any similarities. It can be hard to
+tell how eventual similarities have started. What is important is that
+we do not use their application. If there are a few identical lines
+then one might ask them self how that has happened. But it could just
+as easy come from one way than the other. We are in any case in no
+circumstances of the opinion that we have borrowed code.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> Whoever made the code for subtitles in the Hungarian software
+and in the Danish DVD players can be thought of as a minor issue in
+the todays world. But what is important is the principle questions in
+the concrete issue and what private companies can allow themselves
+when they use Open Source and on the other hand what the Open Source
+community can expect from the companies. Managing director Peter
+Wilmar Christensen has because of the current case had a closer look
+at the GPL license and its legal status evaluated.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Peter:</b> We have confirmed what we already knew, that when using code
+licensed under the GPL then we have to publish any derivatived work.
+This means that the legal foundation is very thin and there is no
+place in the world that I know of where the GPL has been tested in
+court. So from a business perspective I would say that the license is
+relatively weak. This doesn't change the fundamental spirit in the
+Open Source community which I think when all comes to all is positive.
+But it is clear that as a commercial company living of selling it's
+product, can or will not release our proprietary code. It is naturally
+so that one should not use GPL code in proprietary systems.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> The Hungarian software developers of <a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a> is according to
+spokes person Gabucino glad that their accusation against the Danish
+company has reached the media. <br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> As he told, there is not the big economical options for
+dragging the case to court. Instead they hope that the Open Source
+community will put a so large pressure on Kiss Techonology that they
+will be forced to released all its software.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> But that completely out of the question told managing
+director Peter Wilmar Christensen, even though he is very keen on
+staying good friends with the Open Source community.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Peter:</b> We don't have any intentions of working against or in another
+way make enemies with the people in this community. We try to tell
+what we use and what guidelines we follow. Have we made any error,
+such as making the correct descriptions in our manuals then we will of
+course fix those things. It not so that we in any way want
+confrontation, but we have to make the clear statement that our
+software will not be released as Open Source.<br>
+<br>
+<b>Speaker:</b> What is your conclusion of this case, what will it be after
+this?<br>
+<br>
+<b>Peter:</b> The conclusion will be that the licenses in this area is a good
+description of how one ought to operate when in this community. It's
+more of a tool to describe how to operate than a set of rules that can
+be used in court. And I think that the Open Source circles uses far
+too much energy on hunting down private companies like us for
+instance, because it's so obvious that one as a private company simply
+can't release your source code. We appreciate the Linux community very
+much and see it as a good thing for the industry. Generally that there
+is an alternative to the Microsoft community. But we think the the
+community should respect the companies who use Linux and to not hunt
+them because I don't think that beneficial for anyone.<br>
+	<br>
+	<i>END OF TRANSLATION</i><br>
+	<br>
+	<b>Gabucino's comments</b>: I find it quite disgusting to read so much
+	plain lies. It's obvious how companies like Kiss or SCO treat
+	open source. Let's read these particular sentences again:<br>
+	<br>
+	<b>Peter:</b> <i>...There are a lot of things
+		that could have happened, one could imagine that code from our
+		community has spread to other communities included the Open Source and
+		code originating from our player could accordingly be a part of
+		<a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu">MPlayer</a>, if in fact there is is any similarities. It can be hard to
+		tell how eventual similarities have started. What is important is that
+		we do not use their application. If there are a few identical lines
+		then one might ask them self how that has happened.</i><br>
+	<br>
+	It's quite clear that they've never read our News section, because we
+	hurried to state they've even stole <b><i>our own</i></b> subtitle
+	file format MPsub (<a href="http://www.mplayerhq.hu/DOCS/HTML/en/subosd.html#mpsub">see our
+	specifications</a>).<br>
+	<br>
+	Its idea was mine, then I asked <i>laaz</i> if he would be so kind as
+	to implement it in MPlayer. Then in 2001 October 12 at 13:51:58 he
+	commited the support, as it can be
+	<a href="http://www1.mplayerhq.hu/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/main/subreader.c.diff?r1=1.27&r2=1.28">seen here</a>.
+	The format was never seen in the wild.<br>
+	<br>
+	Several things can be concluded:<br>
+	<ol>
+		<li><a href="mailto:peter.wilmar.christensen at kiss-technology.com">Mr. Christensen</a> never took the time to read our
+		  announcements.</li>
+		<li><a href="mailto:peter.wilmar.christensen at kiss-technology.com">Mr. Christensen</a> suggest they've implemented our subtitle
+		  format <i>way before we did it ourselves</i>. The Kiss
+		  firmwares are all made in 2003, which is - as far as I know -
+		  a way later year than 2001.</li>
+		<li><a href="mailto:peter.wilmar.christensen at kiss-technology.com">Mr. Christensen</a> doesn't have the slightest clue about what
+		  software his company is using.</li>
+		<li>Kiss Technology has strange interpretation problems with
+		  some sentences, like
+		  <i>"...We don't have any intentions of working against, or in
+		  another way make enemies with the people in this (Open
+		  Source) community.</i></li>
+	</ol>
+	Actually we can picture a quite nice representation of their viewpoint,
+	especially after seeing their unwillingness to start a conservation
+	with us in E-Mail. <a href="http://www.kiss-technology.com">Kiss Technology</a>'s views are:
+	<ol>
+		<li><i>"...making our source open to public is out of
+		  question"</i></li>
+		<li>Pressing Microsoft (or Bush)-style PR, like repeating
+		  their own lies, emphasized again and again: <i>"What is
+		  important is that we do not use their application."</i></li>
+		<li>Spreading <b>FUD</b>: <i>"It can be hard to tell how
+		  eventual similarities have started."</i> Ever heard of
+		  version control systems?</li>
+		<li>Holding good communiqe with the Open Source community:
+		  <i>"If there are a few identical lines then one might ask
+		  them self how that has happened. But it could just as easy
+		  come from one way than the other."</i> The pitiful aspect of
+		  this is that it implies a totally ignorant viewpoint, like
+		  'our sources are ours, it's completely obfuscated, but yes,
+		  our claims are the truth, yours are plain lies'</li>
+	</ol>
+	How come companies like Kiss cant'be punished by Law?<br>
+	<br>
+</font>
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+<font class="bigheader">
+	<br>
 	<a name="kiss04">
 	2004.01.07, Wednesday :: Update on Kiss Technology
 	</a>