[MPlayer-dev-eng] everything but recursive make (was: Re: recursive make considered harmful)

[Diego Biurrun]

On Thu, Jun 05, 2008 at 03:16:17PM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 05, 2008 at 10:25:44AM +0200, Diego Biurrun wrote:
> > On Thu, Jun 05, 2008 at 03:48:45AM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 11:52:04PM +0200, Benjamin Zores wrote:
> > > > Benjamin Zores a écrit :
> > > > 
> > > > > For sure, I do have more stuff to complain about on Diego's work than on 
> > > > > yours for obvious reasons, I barely ever have seen a commit from you.
> > > > > No, in fact, that's not true, looking at MAINTAINERS file, I do have
> > > > > more stuff to complain about on files you maintain than on the one Diego 
> > > > > does.
> > > > 
> > > > And just to sum up, lookign at MAINTAINERS file, you maintain:
> > > > - XviD codec
> > > >   => we use ffmpeg only and you probably never wrote any code from libxvid
> > > > - vo_svga.c
> > > >   => you did a rewrote of existing code
> > > > - vo_xvmc.c
> > > >   => copy/paste of vo_xv.c code, nothing's factorized, full of bugs
> > > >      and crahes with libmenu (but you don't care about as no one ever
> > > >      wrote in rules file that code had to work ...).
> > > > 
> > > > So you maintain 3 _really_ important files in MPlayer.
> > > > 
> > > > Also:
> > > > # svn log -v > commits.txt
> > > > # grep " iive " commits.txt  | wc -l
> > > > 194
> > > > # grep " ben " commits.txt  | wc -l
> > > > 315
> > > > # grep " diego " commits.txt  | wc -l
> > > > 4840
> > > > 
> > > > Are you really sure you have any right to criticize him ?
> > > > I certainly do not.
> > > > The whole point is that your contribution is meaningless by comparison 
> > > > to the pain you've caused.
> > > 
> > > Thats your oppinion and an insult, did iive insult you?
> > 
> > Benjamin's opinion is shared by many others (and not just me).  As
> 
> We know, the silent majority is always on diegos side ...

You are the one who keeps talking about silent majorities and you are
the one saying it is on your side.  Dominik, Benjamin, Luca, Uoti and
myself are on the record for saying that Ivan is out of control.
That's more than you can claim.

> > > I really think we should all try to return to a insult free form of
> > > communication, flaming about technical parts is one thing but
> > > honestly ...
> > 
> > It's interesting that you say that to all people except the main
> > offender.
> 
> ?
> I said it to all involved, you, iive and ben at least, surely ben is least
> involved

You never chided Ivan explicitly.  Well, I'm glad you at least include
him indirectly here.

> > > calling fellow developers dog, frog, comparing them to sheep, and telling
> > > them to "shut the hell up" is IMHO going too far.
> > 
> > Telling somebody who steps out of line repeatedly, trolls and seems
> > incapable of civil communication to "shut up", even to "shut the hell
> > up" is perfectly acceptable.
> 
> no it is not.

Uh, for somebody who flames as hard as you sometimes do, that sure is
strict criterion...

Some of those "shut ups" were simply very heart-felt.  Well, let's have
people respectfully request for Ivan to desist from flaming then :)

> > He reverts other people's commits without prior notice, which threatens
> > to incite commit wars.
> 
> You steped on iives personal property (XviD code in mplayer) he chased you
> off, he went too far onto your property and you chased him back.

The spelling of xvid in MPlayer is not Ivan's personal property.

And you forget that I am the documentation maintainer and spelling
maintainer if you wish to call it so.  I have done similar changes
many times before without ever encountering this kind of resistance.

  Ivan, you're out of line. You've let your personal feelings cloud your
  judgement. You've blown this issue out of proportion. Diego has done
  nothing wrong in this case. He is the maintainer of the documentation,
  so it is within his compentence to make such changes (that is, keeping
  spelling consistent).

> One who started and the other who instead of just defending his own
> Went and attacked the others as well ...

I did not touch his precious code.  Since you insist on this idea of
private property, that should make a great deal of difference to you.

I can be reasoned with.  Mans and Ramiro did it in FFmpeg, Ivan could
have done it in MPlayer.  I do not insist on this silly bikeshed issue.
Ivan is free to change it to his preferred spelling if he does it right.

> > He never accepts that a discussion has ended or that he has been
> > overruled.
> 
> There never was a discussion,

I'm not talking about this silly xvid bikeshed topic, but in general.
Just remember how you left Ivan out of NUT design discussions because he
was unreasonable and would not give in.  Ever.

> you even said that you prefer if it isnt discussed which spelling is
> correct. You said you just want it consistant even if wrong.

False.

> > Now you surely do not reserve the right to ask for account suspension
> > just for you and not for Benjamin, do you?
> 
> Everyone can ask for account suspension, but there should be a reason
> behind the request, personal anger is a weak reason.

True.  I'm trying to get this message across in the Uoti case.  So far
with very little success unfortunately.

Diego