[MPlayer-dev-eng] to michael

[Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski]

Apologies to everyone for this off topic thread, this is my last reply.

On Thursday, 25 May 2006 at 03:36, Rich Felker wrote:
> On Thu, May 25, 2006 at 12:39:47AM +0200, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski wrote:
> > > > > to follow up, anyone wondering about this should do a quick google for
> > > > > sorbs extortion. i didn't realize but this bastard matthew sullivan is
> > > > > even lower scum than a spamnazi, he's a plain old criminal
> > > > > extortionist hiding behind the mask of spam-fighting to rob people...
> > > > 
> > > > I never thought I'd write this: concerning this subject, you're an idiot,
> > > > Rich. Please stop contributing to the FUD.
> > > 
> > > you can believe the lies if you want or you can look at the facts.
> > 
> > I *always* look at the facts.
> > 
> > > this has nothing to do with fud.
> > 
> > What you wrote about SORBS was nothing but lies and FUD.
> 
> FUD is a FUD-word used to discredit legitimate complaints when you
> don't have a legitimate argument.

It is you who has no legitimate arguments.

> > > it has to do with my legitimate emails being blocked,
> > 
> > And who's blocking them? Certainly NOT SORBS.
> 
> I don't care who "does" it.

Yeah, it must be the Jews. Or the freemasons. Or... it can't be... the
cyclists?

> SORBS is the party responsible for the

Prove it.

> insanity by promoting a service for "spam prevention" while in reality
> this "service" results in denying legitimate users access to email.

SORBS isn't denying service to anyone.

> SORBS is guilty of both libel and extortion.

Prove it.

> Libel for falsely labelling people as spammers

They don't label people. They list IPs from which spam was received (for
example, to spamtrap addresses).

Show me the proof that someone didn't sent spam and got listed.
Blocklists usually keep spam samples that were received from a particular
IP and SORBS is no exception.

> (this is blatently harmful to one's reputation and causes actual monetary
> damage to small businesses and individuals)

Sending spam is harmful to the whole Internet.

> and as "dynamic ip" (which also results in wrongful denial of service).

I'm repeating myself, but SORBS isn't denying service to anyone.
Dynamic/generic DNS IP ranges are known to be infested with spam-spewing
zombies. That's why they should be pre-emptively listed. It's up to
the ISP to label them correctly in the DNS if there is a mail server
there.

> As for extortion, requiring a $50 "donation" to remove yourself from a
> being listed as a spammer (and the resulting damages due to your

It's not extortion. They do not profit from it. And if you sent spam,
why shouldn't you atone for it?

> network not being able to send to ISPs who have been tricked into
> using SORBS) is blatent extortion.

Tricked? ROTFL. Any administrator who uses blocking lists without
veryifying their effects on his services is clearly incompetent.

> > > why don't you study the issue rather than just believing what the
> > > rabid anti-spam crowd tells you?
> > 
> > I've been studying the spam issue probably longer than you. I have
> > extensive experience in spamfighting and I don't have to believe
> > anybody to know how things work.
> 
> This is why you have no legitimacy.

Having years of first-hand experience in spam-fighting means that I have no
legitimacy to speak about the issue. I see.

I assume your legitimacy comes from divine revelations?

> The "spamfighting" crowd is a bunch of overzealous idiots willing to
> throw the baby out with the bathwater, i.e. willing to stomp all over
> everyone's liberties

Everyone's liberties end at my network. I have every right not to receive
e-mail from anyone based on any criteria I want. I am NOT limiting anyone's
freedom in ANY way that way.

> and destroy the free nature of the internet for the sake of _trying_ (and
> failing) to stop spammers.
> 
> There are exactly two ways to stop spam:
> 
> 1. filter it.

That's not stopping spam. See below.

> 2. send spammers to jail for life (or better, lynch them).

Making them go out of business and pay astronomical fines would be
enough for me. Being unable to pay, they would end up in jail.
A life sentence is definitely too harsh. Would you send all thieves
to jail for life? Would you pay for feeding and keeping them?
I don't want to.

> > > procmail and spamassassin stop spam.
> > 
> > ROTFL.
> 
> Laugh all you want; it's true. Did you ever get spam thru the lists on
> mphq1? No. Because Arpi's procmail and spamassassin setup sent it all
> to /dev/null.

That's not stopping spam. That's pretending it never reached you, which is
blatantly false. Moreover, devnulling mail in this way may cause some
legitimate mail to get lost. It also costs cpu time and disk space.
Rejecting spam instead of receiving it is much more cost- and
resource-effective and is IMHO the only efficient method. I know you'll
disagree.

> If this isn't enough for you, you're welcome to require anyone
> emailing you to confirm their emails via a challenge-response system
> and use a whitelist for known senders.

Now that's throwing out the baby out with the bathwater. Not only spam
won't reach your mailbox, but also normal people will stop e-mailing you
because you're making them jump through hoops.

> > > blacklisting innocent people does not.
> > 
> > Blocklists do not list people. They list IP addresses (or domain names).
> 
> This is the most idiotic argument ever. It's like saying someone
> publishing a "sex offenders list" isn't responsible for the horrible
> things that happen to people on the list due to others reading it.

Bad analogy. That is a list of people. A list of IPs is NOT a list of
people. An IP blacklist is like a list of dangerous city districts.

> And these lists, just like the spam blacklists, have lots of mistakes with
> catastrophic consequences.

You're welcome not to use them or any provider that uses them.
Why do you think so many ISPs use SORBS and other blacklists?

Anyway, if you wish to discuss this issue further, please do so in an
appropriate place, like news:news.admin.net-abuse.blocklisting. I consider
this thread closed, because it's highly off-topic.

Regards,
R.

-- 
MPlayer developer and RPMs maintainer: http://rpm.greysector.net/mplayer/
There should be a science of discontent. People need hard times and
oppression to develop psychic muscles.
	-- from "Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib" by the Princess Irulan