[MPlayer-dev-eng] mms:// saying "Core dumped ;)"

[The Wanderer]

Reimar Döffinger wrote:

> Hi,
> 
>>> when a program prints core dumped, WITH A SMILEY FACE AFTER IT,
>>> and outputs a perfectly valid file, then anyone with the least
>>> bit of sense will think "hey, nice joke, these guys have a sense
>>> of humor!"
>> 
>> But that's the thing. Upon seeing "Core dumped", with or without
>> the unobtrusive (and certainly not glaringly obvious) little smiley
>> nearby, my first reaction is not going to be "test the file and see
>> if it works"; I'm much more likely to assume "something has gone
>> wrong, the file is bad and probably doesn't even exist". I am
>> certainly not likely to actually test the file; if I notice that it
>> actually was created, I'm likely to delete it promptly so as to
>> free up disk space, since something which produced such a
>> well-known fatal-error message is obviously not going to be
>> complete and probably not going to be correct.
> 
> Well, I could say that afterwards you'd be a user who has learned
> something... That's not too bad is it ;-)

...I see no way to address this comment, because it makes too many
incompatible assumptions. The best I can do is to say that while
probably true, it is also largely irrelevant.

>>> it's not that confusing... mplayer has many much more serious
>>> cases of "pointless message that looks like an error" to confuse
>>> users, which should be fixed, but this is not one of them..
>> 
>> You think it isn't, I (and apparently many users less elite than
>> either of us) think it is. The only other "looks like an error but
>> isn't" messages I can think of offhand are the "codecs.conf not
>> found" and "missing font" messages, both of which are less
>> problematic because they a) appear in a flood of other, more-useful
>> information, and b) are most often followed immediately by an
>> automatic demonstration that the thing works anyway.
> 
> I made different experiences. At least those kind of people I know
> always asked me at once what these messages are supposed to mean...

I don't parse that first sentence in this context. And the fact that the
people ask "what does this mean?" is at least an improvement over having
them assume "something went wrong" should indicate that even though not
perfect, these messages are less problematic than is the core-dump one.

I never said that these weren't also problems; they are, to varying
degrees. I do maintain that they are less of a problem than is the
message at hand.

>> The point is: this is obvious and funny when you know about it and
>> know what it means, but is confusing, misleading and obfuscatory
>> when you don't. Since some/many/most of the people who use the
>> program don't (as evidenced by the number of 'bug reports' about
>> the message), I think the humor is not a good enough reason to keep
>> it.
> 
> But anyone who does things in the right order for a bugreport, like
> first searching if it was already reported, will stumble over the
> answer very fast...

...and the people who are more likely to do that are also the people who
are more likely to notice that it's humor in the first place. I'm
arguing, in no small part, on behalf of those mediocre and below users
who (for reasons not excluding lack of technical competence and/or
confidence) *aren't* likely to do either of those things.

> And maybe humor isn't a good enough reason, but maybe having our own
> style. If that style doesn't fit the majority of developers, ok, but
> I won't vote for removing it before that...

I would say that "having our own style" isn't a good enough
justification for obstructing functionality, either.

The only question that seems to me to be relevant, so far, is the one of
whether we actually *want* MPlayer to be used by the bulk of the
non-technical, mediocre, and/or none too intelligent people who - like
it or not - constitute a large minority if not a majority of the
potential user base.

If we don't, then having a confusing message for the sake of humor or of
"style" is fine. If we do, then it isn't.

I had the impression that the goal, or part of it, was for MPlayer to
become a truly mainstream, near-omnipresent video player - which implies
that we *do* want those people to use it. If that's not the case, then
I've been somewhat mistaken about what exactly we're trying to
accomplish here.

> And last but not least, -dumpstream isn't exactly an option for a
> first-time user I think. Maybe some kind of a bit cryptic addition to
> the manpage would help? Like adding to the -dumpstream description:
> "P.S.: Sometimes you shouldn't take MPlayer's output too seriously
> ;-)"

While not completely ideal, this would certainly be acceptable, and
would be a considerable improvement over the "no explanation at all"
situation we currently have. In the absence of any other sufficiently
agreeable modification, I'd support this.

-- 
       The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

A government exists to serve its citizens, not to control them.