OT: Re: [MPlayer-dev-eng] [PATCH] cleanup language handling in configure

[Fabian Franz]

Schachar wrote:
> > "The Joel Test - 12 Steps to better code"
> >
> > http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html
> >
> > , which is also imho worth a read.
>
> Well, first of all, we all know that MPlayer suffers from a very
> severe creeping featurism (see
> http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/c/creeping_featurism.html for
> definition)

Yeah, but for some features, users love us ;-)

>
> About the test, lets see....

Well, I've already discussed with others that this test can only be applied in 
parts to Open Source projects. But I think there is always some thruth in it.

>    2. Can you make a build in one step?
> cvs update -dPA && ./configure  && make distclean && make && sudo make
> install counts???? I guess no.....

It almost counts. Actually you can stop after "make" in most cases ...

>    3. Do you make daily builds?

> daily what? No.....

We have daily CVS snapshots though. We don't do daily builds as we have 
decided iirc that the distributions should care of binaries.

Anyway, it is an intersting idea. At least all Codecs, that we have internal 
could be inserted in that binary snapshot. 

Would that be possible to do on MPlayerHQ.hu ?

Or perhaps even a _static_ build not depending on those libraries (but making 
MPlayer huge ...) ?

>    4. Do you have a bug database?
> Yep, though it is rather new, and not yet very populated....

I think that is a very important thing. And we need a good patch-tracker, as 
discussed recently on #mplayerdev.

>    5. Do you fix bugs before writing new code?

> iff the patch for the bug arrived to the non-existing maintainer
> before the patch for the cool feature of the day arrived to the
> semi-existing maintainer.... no.....

lol ;-) Seriously, DonDiego is atm filling those non-maintained parts and 
hopefully that will help the project. :-)

>    6. Do you have an up-to-date schedule?
> Schedule? What is this weird thing? No.

Well, we have some long-term goals though: 	World Dominition through "snow in 
nuts in the second generation" ;-).

>    7. Do you have a spec?

> ? What? Real programmers don't need spec.... They write all of the
> features in one go, even if the started from hacking avi-file.....
> no.....

Actually, I think, we have. See docs/tech/*

>    8. Do programmers have quiet working conditions?
> I don't know about you, but my working conditions includes between 5
> and 50 people around me, making noise and asking weird questions.....
> no....

You can't apply that directly to FOSS projects, but you can ask if the working 
conditions in the project are good? (atmosphere, motivation, ...)

>    9. Do you use the best tools money can buy?

> Everything that GPL can buy? They are the best compilers and debugging
> software out there, but I think we need some more ISO/IEEE/other cool
> very expensive standards for development (oh, and internal
> MS/Real/Apple documents).... I guess this is a no as well....

That one is really interesting. Why do Specs always have to be paid for, after 
being standards ?

>   11. Do new candidates write code during their interview?
> Since the interviews are either by sending patchs to mplayer-dev-eng,
> or by bribing Arpi, I think this is a yes....

Yes, it is.

>   12. Do you do hallway usability testing?
> Hallwhat? Can't everybody type sudo mplayer -vo xvidix -vf yuy2 -xy
> 420 -geometry 600:0 my_nifty_video.avi to get playback running? No.

Uhm, well but we could start if peopel can intuitively play a DVD with the 
GUI :-).

Usability testing is only interestind for GUIs anyway imho.

>     Well, we scored 3.... Way to go....

Nope, according to me, we scored better than that, but that needs discussion.

>
> Quoting Joel: "A score of 12 is perfect, 11 is tolerable, but 10 or
> lower and you've got serious problems. The truth is that most software
> organizations are running with a score of 2 or 3, and they need
> serious help, because companies like Microsoft run at 12 full-time."
>
> Well, now we know why MS produce such good code..... Not.....

So bad MS is, this test comes from a time when MS really did produce good 
code. Joel criticizes in other articles also MS design decisions ...

>
> And BTW, I am pretty sure that if MS were implementing the hallway
> usability testing correctly, WMP was able to rip DVDs into
> XviD/mp3...... :-)

Nope, hallway testing wuld not get that.

Its more like:

"Heh, come on over here. Now you want to watch a DVD, how would you do 
that ..."

Interesting "feature" (oh no, not yet another feature ;-) ) of MPlayer would 
be to autostart DVDs once inserted (in GUI mode, when not playing anything).

cu

Fabian