[mplayer-dev-eng] install localized manpages +

[Rüdiger Kuhlmann]

>--[Andreas Hess]--<jaska at gmx.net>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2003 at 10:10:26AM +0100, Rüdiger Kuhlmann wrote:
> > >--[Andreas Hess]--<jaska at gmx.net>
> > > Oh please, this sucks, I have no de fr hu etc. subdirs and I'm definitely
> > > not interested in mplayer creating them. And I think most of the users feel
> > > the same.
> > No, they don't.
> Huh? In this thread at least 4 different people said, that the current
> way sucks. But feel free to lead me to a poll, where I can see, that the
> general consensus is, that the majority of the users is happy, if they have
> azerbaijanian, traditional chinese and cambodian manpages.

The majority of the people is always silent. Installing man pages of
neglectible size won't harm anyone. There are just a few morons like you who
make a fuss about it because they can't be bothered to configure it
properly.

> > If you don't want translated stuff, just set that
> > environment variable once, and you'll be fine.
> But once again why? Other programs don't force me

Bobody forces you. Stop bitching about a few kB, and everything is fine.

> And I definitely wouldn't be happy, if every program forces me to set
> unneeded environment variables.

It's part of the configuration... tell configure what you want.

> > However, if you do want as much translation as possible, you need to change
> > your options each time a new language is added. _That_ sucks, because the
> > default is to want all translations - either because you're on a multi-user
> > system (then you never know who else will have an account in the future,
> > speaking just another different language), or you're packaging it, then you
> > just can't make an mplayer-LL package for all possible LLs.
> 1) IMHO most mplayer users need just one manpage and don't want to have
>    as much translation as possible.

Most. If you have a multi-user system, you'll alienate those that don't.
Your assertion can only be true for those that compile it on their home box.

> 2) I see no point in respecting the will of some translation freaks, who
>    can't live with less than 20 translated manpages, over the will of the
>    simple user, who is happy with just one manpage.

I'm not a translation freak by any means. Ridiculing translated man pages
doesn't really increase your credibility.

> 3) No, it isn't default to want all translations. _That_ sucks.

It is default to install those translations that are requested, and if none
is requested, then all of them. If you don't want to tell your configure
that you want only one, then don't bitch.

> 4) I work on a lot of multi-user systems

Somehow I have doubts...

>    and none of these systems has localization or defaults to having all
>    translated packages installed,

Well your users seem to be extremely homogenic.

>    just because there could be the possibility, that there is someday a
>    user who wants to learn azerbaijanian via manpages.

Nobody's talking about learning from man pages. It's about having them available
when you might need them.

> > This is the standard way, the way to go. If you don't like that, set your
> > LINUGAS to empty, and you'll be fine. Or remove those installed directories.
> Once again, if that's the way to go, why is mplayer the only program that

It's not the only program. Every program using gettext and autoconf for
configuration works this way, except for the translations and not the man
pages.

> forces me to set a bogus environment variable to nothing?

Again, it doesn't force you to anything. If you want something special, you
have to do work for it.

Oh no.

Of course not.

Hey, your mplayer Just SUCKS, it's installing support for JPEG images. I
don't WANT support for that, It's increasing the BINARY size by 1k!!!!!!!
It's eating up AAAAAAAAAAAAALLL my hard disc SPACE!! *SCREEEAAAAAAMMMMMM*
Why do you make it have support for JPEG images for those 2 users actually
using it? Why do you FORCE me to set a FREAKIN' configure flag just to
disable stupid JPGE support? NO OTHER PROGRAM is doing that!! Why do YOU
have to do THIS to me?? You're SOOOOOO mean!!!

If you don't understand: if the man pages get installed and you don't like
them, you can just remove them or configure it right the next time. If they
aren't installed by default, then you first have to know that they exist,
thus hiding the hard work of the translators from the eye of the casual
installer.

> Maybe mplayer is just ahead of time.

No, it's just a possibility to do one thing right from the beginning.

> > [...] If you want to have a
> > look for other programs doing it, look at xine.
> Thanks a lot, one more argument why xine sucks.

You wanted an example. This is your example. Whether xine sucks or not
is irrelevant here.

> Maybe you should just switch to xine, if you need as many localized
> manpages as possible so desperately.

Look, I can make mplayer to do what I want it to do. I'm just offering
advice for how to do it right, because the mplayer developers may have good
knowledge about codecs, but not about how to make a well-behaved program.
Which mplayer is still nowhere near at. Missing gettext support just happens
to be the one which bothers me most.

> And BTW, if you want to have a look for other programs don't doing it, look
> at a lot of programs besides xine.

I'm doing that. Just looking at a totally bogus, mis-created program called
gcc-3.2 and doing a "grep -r LINGUA .". The hits I get are probably all just
hallucinations.

> > And, btw, this is unrelated to Debian.
> Why should it be related to Debian?

Someone else in the thread tried to defame the proper way of doing it by
claiming it to be just the Debian way. Just like that other guy that tried
to make it a Linux-speciality. Which it isn't.

Have fun...

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