[MPlayer-cvslog] r26411 - trunk/libmpdemux/demuxer.c

[Michael Niedermayer]

On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 05:23:32PM +0200, Diego Biurrun wrote:
> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 12:58:02AM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 07:49:24PM +0200, Diego Biurrun wrote:
> > > On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 04:58:34AM +0200, Michael Niedermayer wrote:
> > > > On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 03:04:14AM +0200, Diego Biurrun wrote:
> > [...]
> > > > > We have 5 people (Michael, Ivan, Alban, Aurelien, Roberto) voting for
> > > > > Uoti's removal and 4 people speaking up against (Uoti, Eugeni, Benjamin,
> > > > > Diego).  This is a far cry from a clear situation, especially given that
> > > > > each of the latter 4 is more active than all of the 5 combined.
> > > > 
> > > > Its true for the current activity but if i look at all commits of all
> > > > times i much rather loose all of the later 4 than a single one of the
> > > > first 5.
> > > 
> > > I think your anger is clouding your judgement.  You should try to
> > > reevaluate the contributions of all nine people mentioned above.
> > > 
> > > I very much respect all the developers listed above, 
> > 
> > Of course ... if anything i said sounded like i did not then this certainly
> > was not intended.
> 
> If your statement above was not intented to be disrespectful, then I
> must say you failed catastrophically.

I very rarely intent to actually be disrespectful or insulting. And i can
assure you that i would not be using such ambigous statements if
disrespectfullness where my goal.

It is rather that i say what i think, and i belive it is better than lieing
just because that would be more respectfull.
And as said you compared people as well, so dont complain if you get your
own "dissrespect" back.


> 
> > > I know most of them personally, like them and the feeling is mutual.
> > > Nonetheless nowadays MPlayer is being developed by a new generation
> > > of people. That does not mean that the contributions of those people
> > > are insubstantial or that not appreciated.
> > 
> > Yes but it also does not mean that the experience the "old generation" has
> > collected over the years should be ignored like it is. The people not being
> > against uoti are new people who do not yet have the same
> > experience reimar, roberto, iive, ... have in respect to maintaining a
> > large project with many developers working, joining and leaving ...
> 
> Reimar never spoke in favor of removing Uoti.

Not litterally i think, but iam pretty sure he said something to the effect of
him being in favor of uoti being removed if theres no other solution being
found ...


[...]
> > Or the same about commiting with no warning to code actively maintained
> > by others. Even if one ignores what the "old generation" says, just looking
> > at the recent months shows how such commits get everyone near boiling.
> > Even you go crazy if iive just changes xvids spelling.
> 
> I did not "go crazy".  I'm old enough to be able not to freak out over
> such silly provocations.

You always freak out about any flies from ivans direction.


[...]
> > > Note that many many outsiders consider the environment around FFmpeg
> > > very hostile.
> > 
> > Note that many many pigs consider birds ugly.
> > no i have no evidence but neither do you.
> 
> It seems that you move in FFmpeg-related circles only then.  I have
> talked to people from many other multimedia projects and distributions.
> FFmpeg is very often viewed as a harsh and difficult environment with
> which communication is not easy and flames abound.

harsh/flames/... != hostile


> 
> We are making progress in the right direction, but we can still improve.
> 
> > >  Of course, FFmpeg can get away with it, because there is
> > > no alternative to it and it holds a monopoly on its "market".
> > 
> > *GPL software cannot hold a monopoly, it can always be forked
> 
> A fork has to be able to survive and the benefit of forking has to
> outweigh the costs.  This is not the case for FFmpeg, which is very much

exactly, there is no reason for people to fork ffmpeg, but in case of
mplayer there is a reason ...


> alive with competent and active developers that are not easily replaced.
> 
> Also, no viable alternative to FFmpeg exists.  If you don't like
> MPlayer, you can choose vlc or xine instead, like Mike did when he got
> fed up with Arpi.
> 

> > > So people are willing to put up with more hardship or simply are
> > > forced to work with FFmpeg one way or the other because they cannot
> > > switch to an alternative.
> > 
> > You should probably post a detailed list of what you think can be improved
> > to ffmpeg-dev
> 
> I'm working on it all the time when I am in contact with other projects
> at LinuxTag, on IRC or wherever.  You may have noticed the Debian patch
> I forwarded to ffmpeg-devel.  I have been working with the new FFmpeg
> Debian maintainer these past few days reviewing their patchset.  With my
> help he could determine that half of the patches are no longer necessary
> and delete them.

Speaking of that, i really would appreciate if all distros which package
ffmpeg could send their patches to ffmpeg-dev.
It would be of mutual benefit
weeding out bad patches/bugs (which ruin ffmpegs good name as well as the
distros) is mainly what iam thinkibng of ...


> 
> > > > id like to point out how you complained about iive changing the
> > > > spelling of xvid. Which honestly is totally irrelevant compared to
> > > > changes to the code.
> > > 
> > > I did not complain about Ivan changing the spelling.  I complained about
> > > Ivan reverting my commit without prior notice.  If he had reverted just
> > > the files he maintains - fine.  But he chose to revert the files I
> > > maintain as well.  He did it on purpose.  This is obviously a
> > > provocation.
> > 
> > hypocrite ...
> 
> WTF?  Have we descended towards throwing around insults already?

didnt you say something about being old enough to not be provocated
easily just a few lines above?
Besides, hypocrite applies because you complain against iive while you really
did nearly the same to him.
And it was actually intended to be more funny than insulting but ohh well ...
Iam just ommiting the smilies because the ambiguity is funny in itself


> 
> > > How come that you don't have an issue with such behavior?
> > 
> > Lets see.
> > * I do not know at all if Xvid or XviD is more correct. I do know it was
> >   XviD once in the past so this one can not be completely wrong now.
> > * You changed the spelling to Xvid in files maintained by you and ivve
> > * iive changed the spelling back to XviD in files maintained by you and ivve
> > * he did the same you did, you started
> > * you broke the policy he reverted the commit which broke the policy
> > No the whole was not ideal but nothing bad happened we are just back at the
> > start and have another chance to find a solution. If the spelling bothers
> > you. Just start a discussion on mplayer-dev about it, like it should IMHO
> > have been in the first place already.
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting that we should waste time on dev-eng
> discussing which way to spell Xvid?  When this was hashed out and
> committed to the rest of the documentation in 2006?

If not then why are you complaining about iive changing it? Either it
does matter or it does not ...


> 
> Are you seriously suggesting that I broke the policy by changing the
> spelling and, assuming that I did, it is OK to remedy that by breaking
> the policy again, i.e. two wrongs make a right?

Are you seriously suggesting that we discuss about these 2 flies?


[... biology discussion about flies ...] ;)

> The problem I have with you here is that you are applying double
> standards.
> 
> On the one hand you insist on the strictest possible interpretation of
> the policy for issues that you care about like separation of whitespace
> changes from other types of changes and demand draconian punishments for
> offenders.
> 
> On the other hand you are very lax yourself about issues you consider
> less important like adding full license headers to files or updating the
> documentation to match your code changes.  You have behaved this way
> long before this incident, don't tell me it is a result of it.
> 
> That you then go on to call me - the person that goes out of its way to
> split commits to your liking, writes the documentation for you, etc. -
> a hypocrite is galling and does add insult to previous injury.

Well you care about spelling,  consistency, licenses, ...
i care about clean commits, ...

I do not care much about spelling,  consistency, licenses, ...
You do not care much about clean commits

Now you complain about me applying double standards while you do the very
same, just the other way around.

[...]

-- 
Michael     GnuPG fingerprint: 9FF2128B147EF6730BADF133611EC787040B0FAB

While the State exists there can be no freedom; when there is freedom there
will be no State. -- Vladimir Lenin
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