[MEncoder-users] Re: Re: Re: Re: Tutorial?

[The Wanderer]

Ilya Zakharevich wrote:

> [A complimentary Cc of this posting was NOT [per weedlist] sent to
> The Wanderer <mencoder-users at mplayerhq.hu>], who wrote in article
> <45279D95.60302 at comcast.net>:

Are you ignoring me completely? For a third time: please do not omit
attributions when quoting!

>>> Let me restate my question again: which of two semantics holds:
>>> 
>>> a) the bitrate part of `xvidencopts' is the target bitrate/size
>>> of the VIDEO PART of the produced file;
>>> 
>>> b) the bitrate part of `xvidencopts' is the target TOTAL (=video
>>> + audio) bitrate/size of the produced file.
>> 
>> a), obviously.
> 
> There is nothing "obvious" with software (unless one knows it is an
> extremely dumb software).

This isn't a matter of software, though - it's a matter of simple "a + b
+ c" concepts.

There *is no such thing* as the "total bitrate" of the produced file -
not in any way which makes any sense, anyway. Bitrate, as a settable
value, is a per-stream concept.

It is not the domain of the MPlayer documentation (at least not the man
page) to explain such basic ideas in more than the most general of
terms, if indeed at all. If people really don't understand these things
from the information which *is* provided, then they need to educate
themselves elsewhere before they can make meaningful use of *any* video
encoder - not just MEncoder.

>> The reason this is obvious is because XviD is a VIDEO codec, and
>> has nothing whatsoever to do with the rest of the file (video,
>> audio, subtitles, metadata, container, etc); therefore, the XviD
>> bitrate (which is obviously what you're specifying, since these are
>> 'xvidencopts') cannot have anything to do with the non-video parts
>> of the file.
> 
> You logic assumes knowledge of details of interaction (and 
> not-interaction) of parts of mencoder (alternative explanation is
> just lack of imagination on your part, but I prefer the first one
> ;-).

No - only knowledge of the basic fundamentals of video codecs. Such as
the fact that they don't represent audio data.

The MEncoder documentation should not need to explain basic,
field-universal terminology. Again, if someone does not understand those
basics already, they should not be trying to use any encoding program at
all.

> E.g., mencoder could inform XviD of the current offset into the
> output file, and XVID could take this into account when writing its
> log.

...huh? I don't even understand what you're suggesting. Or if I do, I
don't see how it would relate to determining the overall
size/bitrate/what-have-you of the output file.

I've tried to phrase a question to maybe narrow it down a little, but I
haven't been able to get even enough sense out of this for that. I
haven't been able to figure out how "the current offset into the output
file" is supposed to be related to the topic at hand (that being the
bitrate) in any way which would address the question...

If you think that this is a possible valid interpretation, then I really
do doubt that you have even a basic understanding of the concepts
involved.

> It is much easier to write this down explicitly in the docs than
> continue this discussion of "logic".  ;-)

"Logic" doesn't seem to enter into it, as far as I see.

You seem to be demanding that all terms which are not sufficiently
widely recognized be explained in detail in the documentation. However,
the question becomes what qualifies as "sufficient" - where to draw the
line; many people would consider "bitrate" to be a sufficiently obvious
term as to not need explaining. If you take the argument far enough, you
have to start defining words such as "a" and "the" [1].

(I'm aware that this is reductio ad absurdum in the negative sense, but
I've spent too much time on this topic already and it hardly seems worth
the effort to come up with a proper refutation of an argument which is
unclear in the first place - still less worthwhile when the person on
other side of the argument has plainly already made up his mind and is
not going to be convinced by any means available over the Internet.)

-- 
       The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.