[FFmpeg-devel] Broken third party software

[Robert Swain]

2008/9/14 M?ns Rullg?rd <mans at mansr.com>:
> Frans de Boer <frans at fransdb.nl> writes:
>
>> Ok, It seems that my messages have stirred up some dust. except two
>> typical - in my opinion - emotional engineers reactions I can understand
>> most reactions.
>
> Not only are you demanding, now you're condescending too.

Indeed.

>> Yes, if I had the knowledge I would volunteer, but I never used svn
>> before but only followed directions on the various web pages whenever it
>> was required. Why would you put those directions there, if you assume
>> that everyone must have intimate knowledge of svn? Since svn is the ONLY
>> way to get the FFmpeg source, you might consider not using such
>> assumption because the FFmpeg project - for viable reasons - can't
>> provide anything else.
>
> You can use a distribution package.  Or is that too complicated as
> well?  Should we congratulate you for finding the power button on the
> computer?

A distribution package is a reasonable suggestion, but different
distributions have different packages with different issues. Without
releases there's little consistency.

A few things could be learned here:

- Frans should make more effort to learn how to obtain our software
and pay attention to significant changes in our software as it is of
interest to him, it seems.
- We should make such information more easily available where
reasonable to do so. Duplicating the svn documentation is not
reasonable, but the suggestion to add a news entry on the website
making note of the API/ABI flux was good and adding a similar note as
to how to check out the old revision before the changes is also good.
- Being mean doesn't really gain any of us anything.

>> So, yes: announcing like it's done now, is a step in the right
>> direction. At least now I know what is the latest backward compatible
>> svn release. And since I also have learned - out of necessity ;) - how
>> to update (up or down) towards r15261, I can apply it.
>> Suggestion: Add the comment 'svn update -r 15261' to restrict to libav*
>> version 51 (until today I was not even aware of such a version number).
>>
>> Oh, one more thing: In my world it is common to top-reply (and I am
>
> Then we don't like your world.  Please go back there, and don't come
> here again.

*sigh* See below.

>> doing this for almost 29 years). But now I know that the FFmpeg
>
> I see you're attempting a proof by doing-it-for-a-long-time approach.
> That doesn't work in this world.

I'm not sure that we aren't guilty of this ourselves.

>> project likes bottom-replies, I will respect that and hope that some
>> people might learn someday that there are also other disciplines in
>> this world.
>
> You must be confused.  Which world are you talking about, ours or
> yours?  They are, apparently, quite different.
>
>> and....show me where I wrote "I demand". For some of you: Please,
>
> It is easily possible to make a demand without actually using the word
> "demand".

Indeed, and demanding statements were present in Frans' second e-mail
in this thread.

>> try to read a little better and refrain from your personal
>> interpretations.
>
> You started it.  You came barging in like a wild boar, telling us how
> we should do things, offering neither code nor money in return.

How old are you M?ns? "You started it."? Do you think that's a
juvenile remark? Would you consider that you're above remarks like
that?

Aside from the 'barging in like a wild boar' bit, I agree with the
second sentence.

> It is people like you who give FFmpeg a bad reputation.  If you and
> your ilk adopted a more likeable attitude, we wouldn't have to be so
> harsh in our replies.

It is also people like you, M?ns, writing responses like that, that
give FFmpeg a bad reputation. Here's a quote for you:

"If you and your ilk adopted a more likeable attitude, we wouldn't
have to be so harsh in our replies."

I don't really agree with having to be harsh in replies however. You
control your actions, not other people. You're intelligent enough to
know that you can respond calmly and productively without all this
unnecessary inflammation.

I know it's not just you M?ns, and I'm not saying Frans' didn't do
wrong (you can see I agree with you on a number of points above) but,
am I forever going to have to crusade against FFmpeg's bad reputation
in the vain hope that one day its reputation might improve and its
community might be more civilised rather than spewing inflammatory
crap at passers by?

Regards,
Rob