[FFmpeg-devel] donation for snow

Jason Garrett-Glaser darkshikari
Fri Nov 7 01:06:47 CET 2008

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Michael Niedermayer <michaelni at gmx.at> wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 06, 2008 at 10:30:58AM -0800, Jason Garrett-Glaser wrote:
>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Lars T?uber <lars.taeuber at gmx.net> wrote:
> [...]
>> >> > > Ive no doubt that snow could beat x264 given a few determined and smart
>> >> > > developers
>> >> > I highly, highly doubt this, assuming you stick to the basic current
>> >> > idea of Snow.  I don't doubt that you or I could make a better format
>> >> > than H.264 if I tried--there are dozens of places one could make
>> >> > improvements--but what I do doubt is the ability to make a better
>> >> > format *using overlapped wavelet*, since thousands of people have
>> >> > tried that for something on the order of two decades and failed
>> >> > miserably.
>> >>
>> >> I had no intent to stick to wavelets once someting else had been implemented
>> >> that work better, actually i was aware that existing wavelets with existing
>> >> ntropy coders perform poorly on inter frames before even writing the wavelet
>> >> code.
>> >
>> > Then what about using wavelets for intra frames only and other algorithms for the inter frames?
>> Because ordinary wavelets are even worse for intra coding than for
>> inter, since they don't have spatial prediction.
>> There are some ideas floating around in the realm of directional
>> wavelets and so forth, but nobody's come up with anything that can
>> beat spatial prediction yet, at least as far as I know.
> last i heard jpeg2000 beats h264 in intra coding quality per bitrate.
> So from actual comparissions (which arent recent i have to admit though)
> normal wavelets do beat h264s spatial prediction.
> As you claim the opposite iam curious upon what that is based? If you want
> iam pretty sure i could find the old comparissions.

That's exactly what I was referring to: H.264 spatial prediction
trashes JPEG-2000, both PSNR-wise (over 1-1.5db last I saw) and
visually (in which case it beats it even more, since we all know how
badly JPEG-2000 fares visually.

I don't like to push these statistics though, as JPEG-2000 is widely
admitted to be a botched format, and wavelets can do much better than

Dark Shikari

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