[FFmpeg-devel-irc] IRC log for 2010-07-28

[irc at mansr.com]

[00:23:22] <saintdev> peloverde: http://imgur.com/aNijz.png
[00:23:23] <saintdev> top is ffaac lame windowing stuffed into 3gpp, middle is 3gpp, bottom is itunes
[00:24:29] <peloverde> Is iTunes using TNS on that?
[00:24:49] <saintdev> don't think so, let me check
[00:26:05] <saintdev> it is
[00:26:25] <saintdev> however, on that hit lame seems to perform very poorly
[00:32:59] <saintdev> it seems to do a little better when there is more background noise
[00:35:25] <peloverde> how does actual lame do?
[00:43:49] <saintdev> peloverde: http://imgur.com/2w5Ci.png bottom is lame
[01:00:02] <peloverde> So looking at that there is probably an inconguity in the port to AAC
[01:01:25] <saintdev> peloverde: but that is just one isolated hit
[01:02:17] <saintdev> anyway, got to run, bbl
[01:02:37] <peloverde> yeah, but it is a lot of pre-echo, and having looked at the 3GPP one before that particular case is rather clear (Should be an easy decsion)
[01:03:00] <peloverde> otoh perhaps the lame+aac code has fewer false positives
[01:09:52] <saintdev> could also be the thresholds need retuned
[01:10:35] <saintdev> i know that our decisions are much closer to itunes and nero
[01:10:59] <saintdev> 3gpp seems to switch even earlier than we do, and we're usually one frame ahead of itunes
[01:11:10] <saintdev> which is usually one frame ahead of nero
[01:16:27] <j0sh> why don't we use pkg-config to detect x264?
[01:17:36] <saintdev> peloverde: wrt false-positives, i know there's a couple spots a few frames into castanets where it switches to short blocks, and none of the other encoders do
[05:03:00] <thresh> moroning
[05:05:16] <kshishkov> good morning
[05:05:52] <peloverde> still night time here but good morning
[05:20:44] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: mstorsjo * r24560 /trunk/libavcodec/nellymoserenc.c: nellymoserenc: Declare the supported sample format
[05:34:55] <elenril> bcoudurier: ping
[05:37:24] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: alexc * r24561 /trunk/libavcodec/ (vp56.h vp5.c vp6.c vp56.c): ff_prefix non static vp56 functions.
[05:39:19] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: alexc * r24562 /trunk/libavcodec/ (vp56.h vp6.c): Reindent after last commit.
[05:41:30] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: alexc * r24563 /trunk/libavcodec/vp56.c: 10l: missed one reindent.
[05:41:33] <peloverde> I need to start using git again
[05:42:19] <saintdev> peloverde: well i got it much closer to 3gpp, still nowhere near itunes
[05:42:34] <saintdev> just needed to lookahead further
[05:43:23] <peloverde> What's it look like now? Does it miss the attack? is the grouping correct?
[05:45:56] <saintdev> peloverde: http://imgur.com/Y3zRn.png
[05:46:15] <saintdev> top to bottom itunes, ffaac-lame, ffaac-3gpp, reference
[05:47:05] <saintdev> same hit as before :)
[05:47:14] <peloverde> good
[05:47:23] <peloverde> what's the length of the preecho?
[05:49:10] <saintdev> .00136054s
[05:49:12] <saintdev> lol
[05:49:27] <peloverde> how many samples?
[05:49:43] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: reimar * r24564 /trunk/libavformat/mxfenc.c:
[05:49:43] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: Add extern to mxf_d10_muxer forward declaration to avoid a redundant
[05:49:43] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: redeclaration warning.
[05:49:52] <peloverde> 60?
[05:50:57] <peloverde> That is smaller than block switching will get us
[05:51:13] <saintdev> so how does itunes get it so right :/
[05:51:19] <peloverde> TNS
[05:52:25] <saintdev> TNS can help that much with pre-echo o.O
[05:53:56] <peloverde> yes
[05:54:38] <peloverde> I have some TNS code floating around, but it's based on 3GPP which is apparently very subpar
[05:56:10] <av500> mroning
[06:07:01] <peloverde> How is it on false positives? At very low bitrates, false positives bleed quality
[06:07:17] <saintdev> that's what i'm looking into now
[06:08:00] <saintdev> at first glance, not very good, but i think just adjusting the threshold may solve that
[06:36:24] <mru> moronings
[06:36:36] <av500> +1
[06:37:09] <mru> moroningses?
[06:38:04] <av500> morona
[06:38:57] <mru> that's plural of moronum
[06:39:06] <thresh> huh, some russian court say ISP should ban access to youtube, because it contains extremist materials
[06:39:30] <thresh> like Mein Kampf, which is forbidden in Russia
[06:39:34] <mru> those lolcats are *extreme*
[06:39:52] <av500> thresh: they also ban russian state TV?
[06:40:03] <thresh> av500: I wish..
[06:41:05] <thresh> the Great Russian Firewall rises up
[06:42:26] <av500> you can make a common firewall zone with china
[06:42:32] <av500> and afew other states nearby
[06:42:52] <KotH> moin
[06:43:00] <av500> grüezi
[06:43:02] <elenril> at least tor is getting faster lately
[06:43:16] <mru> tor is a joke
[06:43:33] <elenril> orly
[06:43:44] <mru> not to _them_ of course
[06:44:51] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: mstorsjo * r24565 /trunk/libavformat/rtpdec_xiph.c:
[06:44:52] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: rtpdec_xiph: Handle the sampling SDP parameter
[06:44:52] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: Patch by Josh Allmann, joshua dot allmann at gmail
[06:45:15] <thresh> haha, they actually should also block web.archive.org :-)
[06:46:03] <thresh> I wonder if they will ban the whole subnets; what will happen if they discover there is porno sites on the internets? ban the whole 0.0.0.0/0 ? :)
[06:47:17] <saintdev> porn! on the interwebs! no wais!!!
[06:49:03] * KotH notes, that number of fftards is rising
[06:49:26] <av500> you have a tardmeter?
[06:49:49] <KotH> juup, right next to my matsumotometer
[06:50:07] <mru> av500: I'll need to upgrade mine for OVC
[06:50:22] <mru> get one that goes to 11
[06:53:56] <KotH> ovc? oberpfälzer veteranen club?
[06:55:18] <av500> yeah
[06:56:03] <av500> http://www.openvideoconference.org/
[07:20:36] <saintdev> wow, 3gpp falls apart on fatboy.wav
[07:21:35] <saintdev> and once again itunes kicks ass
[07:23:28] <mru> kick the fat boy's ass?
[07:24:20] <saintdev> itunes does, yes
[07:26:17] <saintdev> i wonder what the TRUMPET, FSOL and SNAPS test samples the LAME comments mention are
[07:38:14] <KotH> av500: is anyone of the fftards being invited?
[07:38:34] <KotH> av500: or from vlc, xine or mplayer for that matter
[07:38:38] <av500> j-b
[07:38:41] <av500> speaks
[07:39:04] <KotH> right
[07:39:07] <av500> BBB and peloverde want to go iirc
[07:40:00] * KotH finds it interesting, that from the speakers only one is involved in video coding and only another two can be said to have an involvment into the field
[07:40:13] <av500> but one is a rock star!
[07:41:09] <peloverde> presumably most of the CELT people will be there because they are going to FOMS
[07:41:53] <Dark_Shikari> KotH: well duhhhh
[07:41:54] <Dark_Shikari> it's xiphcon
[07:41:54] <kshishkov> most of the CELT people == J-M Vallin, isn't it?
[07:43:00] <KotH> .o0(ffcon)
[07:43:35] <peloverde> my choice for conventions within a days drive of where I live are Ohio Linux Fest or OVC
[07:43:57] <peloverde> And monty is keynoting OLF
[07:44:25] <av500> OLF?
[07:44:34] <av500> ah, ohio
[07:44:52] <kshishkov> so no real choice, eh?
[07:45:29] <av500> no freedom of choise!
[07:46:36] <peloverde> I'll see how it goes
[07:47:08] <kshishkov> av500: till this year I had freedom to choose any of zero conferences
[07:47:27] <mru> no ukraine LUG?
[07:47:40] <kshishkov> in theory there is
[07:47:50] <mru> but it moved to germany?
[07:48:21] <av500> kshishkov: i thought they all write java apps?
[07:48:50] <kshishkov> mru: it's site www.linux.kiev.ua - isn't that a bit suspicious?
[07:49:49] <kshishkov> av500: no, Ukrainian coders mostly do PHP and .NET, Java developers are quite rare and can get insane amounts of money (insanely small by European standards)
[07:50:03] <av500> ah, mixed that up then
[07:50:30] <pJok> kshishkov, i thought ukrainian developers were paid in beatings...
[07:50:39] <mru> and I was feeling dirty after doing all that web work on fate
[07:50:59] <mru> it uses css3, is that cool enough?
[07:51:13] <av500> html5?
[07:51:16] <kshishkov> yes, enough to feel dirty
[07:51:20] <mru> no html5
[07:51:24] <av500> lame
[07:51:39] * pJok makes mru remake the site in flash
[07:51:40] <kshishkov> pJok: it's not India even if it seems so quite often
[07:51:54] <av500> kshishkov: you missed this one: http://conference.osdn.org.ua/
[07:51:56] <kshishkov> in Silverlight!
[07:52:03] <pJok> kshishkov, the pics i saw did somewhat resemble Delhi...
[07:52:13] <j0sh> peloverde, you should get yourself added to the open source section here http://www.openvideoconference.org/speakers/
[07:52:20] <peloverde> You should put all failures in <video> tags then file bugs against the major browsers to try to trick them into fixing the bugs
[07:52:37] <kshishkov> av500: no, but it has the last announcement for 2009. Dead?
[07:52:49] <mru> ah, so _that_ is why they only support webm doctype
[07:52:55] <peloverde> I was under the impression that that was for the 2009 conference
[07:53:09] <j0sh> ohh it is, my bad
[07:53:46] <av500> not sure, it feauteres j-b and he was not there 2009, was he?
[07:54:36] <funman> 2010 Announced Speakers (so far)
[07:54:39] <kshishkov> av500: so what? LinuxTag 2010 also featured j-b 9at least his badge) and he was not there
[07:55:21] <funman> it's a fake: it says this j-b develops "VLC Player"
[07:57:42] <kshishkov> funman: and you develop "Rockbox player software", I presume (nothing to do with firmware, not at all)
[07:59:06] <av500> kshishkov: at least the ukranians are building UAV killdrones with gstreamer: http://ftp.linux.kiev.ua/pub/conference/2009/reports/Lavruschenko-GStreamer.pdf
[07:59:07] <funman> i firmly develop software
[08:01:04] <j-b> av500: I will go there...
[08:01:09] <av500> yes
[08:01:20] <av500> you can meet a rockstar
[08:01:23] <j-b> and I was there last year...
[08:01:26] <j-b> a rockstart?
[08:01:27] <av500> ok
[08:01:34] <av500> in a rockbox
[08:02:02] <j-b> :)
[08:03:13] <funman> j-b: what will you speak about?
[08:03:32] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: cehoyos * r24566 /trunk/libavcodec/libvpxenc.c:
[08:03:32] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: Map rc_buffer_size to and c_initial_buffer_occupancy to their libvpx
[08:03:32] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: counterparts.
[08:03:32] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: Patch by James Zern, jzern at google
[08:03:33] <j-b> no fucking idea
[08:03:47] <funman> "how webm penetrates the porn industry"
[08:04:13] <peloverde> good use of the word penetrate
[08:04:26] <j-b> I would love that this conference doesn't stay the Mozilla/html5 showcase, like last year
[08:05:03] <KotH> j-b: you mean, more of us should speak there?
[08:05:20] <peloverde> Well I'll be there and I hate mozilla with a fiery passion
[08:05:30] * mru fans the flames
[08:06:10] <funman> get "i run safari" t-shirts
[08:06:29] <j-b> KotH: well, I don't know, but yes for them, the future of video is only through the browser
[08:06:50] <kshishkov> "Firefox - still a long way to implement garbage collector"
[08:06:55] <j-b> in the cloud
[08:07:14] <funman> in the cloud with rainbows and unicorns
[08:07:45] <mru> if firefox had a working garbage collector, it would self-collect first thing at startup
[08:07:51] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: cehoyos * r24567 /trunk/libavformat/id3v2.c:
[08:07:51] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: Skip short padding in id3v2.
[08:07:51] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: Patch by Alexander Kojevnikov, alexander kojevnikov com
[08:08:08] <kshishkov> mru: only in case of smart garbage collector
[08:08:12] <mru> funman: check where fftrollbot is signed on from
[08:08:35] <funman> :o
[08:09:08] <j-b> funman: so, I don't know, speak about patents, DRM, how to be a small team, how vlc depends on so many other projects, how it is hard to do crossplatform for different stuffs, like UI or video output
[08:09:29] <mru> and how ffmpeg rocks
[08:09:47] <j-b> well, ffmpeg rocks, but there is a troll, named mru... :D
[08:09:48] <j-b> :D
[08:10:01] <kshishkov> trolls have relations to rocks
[08:10:35] <kshishkov> but I must admit that even our trolls are of very high quality
[08:12:35] <KotH> j-b: well.. the web is the future.. or rather the present... it's time we replace it with something new
[08:12:44] <lu_zero> good morning
[08:12:53] <KotH> bon giorno
[08:13:04] <lu_zero> hi KotH
[08:13:29] <lu_zero> your doomsday devices got ok btw?
[08:14:07] <lu_zero> j-b: our troll beer is top quality =P
[08:14:25] <mru> we need a sponsorship deal with them
[08:14:47] <kshishkov> mru: I wonder why trolleybuses went out of fashion?
[08:14:54] <lu_zero> mru: I'm thinking about really ask for an estimate about a custom brew for us
[08:15:26] <lu_zero> and setup a shop within the foundation website with the t-shirt and the beer
[08:15:27] <mru> we could put a "powered by Troll" logo on stuff...
[08:15:41] <kshishkov> "trolled by power"
[08:15:56] <KotH> lu_zero: doomsday devices? which one do you mean?
[08:15:57] <lu_zero> kshishkov: thehehe
[08:16:02] <lu_zero> KotH: good question
[08:16:39] <lu_zero> we left you with those earthquake monitoring stuff being completed
[08:17:17] <lu_zero> btw I'm thinking about having the ffcon with the cloudcamp by topix
[08:17:53] <lu_zero> they are already taking a good place for few days
[08:18:02] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: bcoudurier * r24568 /trunk/libavformat/wav.c: In wav muxer, always flush in write_trailer, fix pipe output
[08:19:02] <bcoudurier> yes elenril
[08:20:45] <elenril> bcoudurier: what happened to the patch for writing ogg-vorbis and ogg-theora metadata?
[08:20:58] <bcoudurier> good question
[08:21:02] <bcoudurier> it's very welcome
[08:21:03] <elenril> you forgot about it?
[08:21:15] <elenril> J_Darnley sent it a few months ago
[08:21:21] <bcoudurier> did I miss it ?
[08:21:24] <elenril> as far as i can see it wasn't reviewed
[08:21:29] <bcoudurier> ping the thread then
[08:21:42] <elenril> ok
[08:23:07] <bcoudurier> thanks
[08:23:29] <bcoudurier> fuck I got pownd in 3 2v2 in a row
[08:23:33] <bcoudurier> hate that
[08:23:53] <peloverde> hmm... I need to find a new FFmpeg related project to work on
[08:24:55] <Dark_Shikari> make the aac encoder suck less
[08:24:56] * elenril wishes he had time for sc2
[08:25:08] <Dark_Shikari> bcoudurier: have you played the singleplayer yet?
[08:26:47] <merbzt1> peloverde: well the dca encoder needs some love
[08:26:49] <Dark_Shikari> also, snape kills kerrigan with dumbledore
[08:27:09] <peloverde> I'm sick of AAC, I don't have good ears, relying on others has very high latency, it's tolerable at high bitrates, and I get so apprehensive about the encoder that I make up excuse to not work on it like playing sc2 all day
[08:27:41] <peloverde> Whatever codec they use for the prerendered video blows
[08:27:46] <bcoudurier> Dark_Shikari, first mission
[08:28:00] <bcoudurier> then I did 1v1 to check in which league I would end up
[08:28:04] <bcoudurier> I'm in plat currently
[08:28:10] <saintdev> peloverde: as long as you're willing to answer my questions ;)
[08:28:39] <kshishkov> peloverde: please provide a sample
[08:29:13] * kshishkov suspects that Blizzard still uses RAD Game Tools codecs for cutscenes
[08:29:32] <bcoudurier> I've seen some ogg files
[08:29:38] <peloverde> I don't have appropriate tools to bust open the MPQs on linux, I'll have to wait until i reboot
[08:29:47] <mru> chris blizzard?
[08:29:48] <elenril> sc2 works in wine?
[08:29:53] <Dark_Shikari> elenril: should
[08:29:55] <lu_zero> wine 1.2
[08:29:59] <Dark_Shikari> I've been playing it in wine for months
[08:30:09] <bcoudurier> well I can only play low on my macbookpro :/
[08:30:13] <Dark_Shikari> though I think their last beta patch broke things
[08:30:22] <Dark_Shikari> Oh yeah, there was a kernel bug.
[08:30:22] <bcoudurier> but that's fine, TLO plays low as well ;)
[08:30:23] <elenril> Dark_Shikari: weren't you the evil windoze guy?
[08:30:26] <Dark_Shikari> elenril: yes
[08:30:27] <kshishkov> mru: should be a piece of good news - "Monty admits using Xvid and MP3 for his encodings"
[08:30:32] <Dark_Shikari> I've just tested it some on wine
[08:30:33] <lu_zero> apparently also the wine developers are playing sc
[08:30:47] <Dark_Shikari> it turns out there was a kernel bug stopping SC2 from working
[08:30:49] <bcoudurier> I installed win7 just for it :/
[08:30:50] <lu_zero> kshishkov: but not ffmpeg
[08:30:58] <Dark_Shikari> they added an anti-debug thing that used "icebp"
[08:31:06] <Dark_Shikari> but a kernel bug broke the trapping for that instruction
[08:31:08] <kshishkov> lu_zero: games is #1 reason why people still use Windows
[08:31:21] <kshishkov> lu_zero: #0 is legacy crap
[08:31:25] <mru> kshishkov: I thought it was stupidity
[08:31:29] <Dark_Shikari> or wait, maybe that was wow
[08:31:33] <Dark_Shikari> it was one of the blizzard games that broke.  or both.
[08:31:55] <peloverde> What's the mpq program that doesnt suck?
[08:31:55] <Dark_Shikari> anyways I just beat the campaign
[08:31:57] * kshishkov thought Blizzard had developed more than two games
[08:32:01] <mru> hmm, firefox is a blizzard game...
[08:32:12] <lu_zero> mru: o_O?
[08:32:29] <mru> lu_zero: chris blizzard
[08:32:38] <mru> the ubertard
[08:32:49] <kshishkov> "grab as much RAM as you can" is not a good game
[08:32:58] <kshishkov> mru: what about Drepper then?
[08:33:12] <mru> he's just an arrogant bastard
[08:33:19] <bcoudurier> how's the campaign ?
[08:33:31] <mru> drepper is smart, misguided, and arrogant
[08:33:38] <mru> a very dangerous combination
[08:33:53] <Dark_Shikari> http://vimeo.com/13457383
[08:33:56] <Dark_Shikari> this is really fucking cool.
[08:34:11] <peloverde> I see a bunch of .ogv files
[08:34:23] <Dark_Shikari> peloverde: theora is better than bink
[08:34:31] <Dark_Shikari> also, they probably didn't use enough bitrate
[08:34:35] <Dark_Shikari> given just how much cinematics the game has
[08:35:01] <kshishkov> Dark_Shikari: Bink is better - it's not that easy to encode into it so it's still niche format
[08:35:37] <mru> Dark_Shikari: see, that's why games on bluray is a good idea
[08:35:41] <mru> 50GB of space
[08:35:50] <Dark_Shikari> mru: no, bad idea
[08:35:52] <Dark_Shikari> then we get final fantasy 14
[08:35:58] <Dark_Shikari> or 13 or whatever
[08:36:01] <Dark_Shikari> where the game is 90% cutscenes
[08:36:07] <lu_zero> Dark_Shikari: nah
[08:36:07] <mru> I didn't say it was impossible to fuck it up
[08:36:14] <Dark_Shikari> and every 2 hours
[08:36:16] <lu_zero> the tutorial is 90% story
[08:36:16] <Dark_Shikari> they let you play the game
[08:36:18] <kshishkov> Dark_Shikari: ever heard of Phantasmagoria ?
[08:36:21] <bcoudurier> hehe
[08:36:24] <Dark_Shikari> kshishkov: yes, but that was done right
[08:36:29] <Dark_Shikari> it's fine if the game is ALL cutscenes.
[08:36:31] <peloverde> Couldn't they have but better cutscenes in the 0day patch?
[08:36:33] <bcoudurier> ff13 scenario sucked
[08:36:39] <bcoudurier> but I still finished 100%
[08:36:41] <Dark_Shikari> it's not fine if it's 90% cutscenes and 10% stupid grinding
[08:37:04] <lu_zero> Dark_Shikari: you get to finish it?
[08:37:08] <bcoudurier> well the producer said that now they have the engine
[08:37:16] <Dark_Shikari> lu_zero: I haven't seriously played an FF game since 10
[08:37:18] <bcoudurier> they would like to reuse it for the next game
[08:37:36] <lu_zero> I wonder if the story would end flat
[08:37:38] <Dark_Shikari> If I want to play an interactive movie, I'll play an interactive movie with less grinding.
[08:37:42] <bcoudurier> X was very nice
[08:37:45] <Dark_Shikari> Japan makes lots of them
[08:37:47] <Dark_Shikari> they're called visual novels
[08:37:55] <kshishkov> Dark_Sikari: no, cutscenes there actually were <50%, but still 7 CDs for the first game and 5CDs for the second
[08:38:14] <lu_zero> X was bearable
[08:38:22] <bcoudurier> come on
[08:38:25] <lu_zero> but completing it is daunting
[08:38:30] <bcoudurier> don't say your favorite is the 6
[08:38:33] <kshishkov> aren't visual novels mostly static images?
[08:38:34] <bcoudurier> us 6
[08:38:35] <lu_zero> X-II was more or less the same
[08:38:47] <lu_zero> bcoudurier: mine had been 7
[08:38:56] <bcoudurier> ok we agree on this
[08:39:01] <lu_zero> 12 felt like wow
[08:39:03] <kshishkov> lu_zero: X-II = VIII, learn your arithmetics already
[08:39:18] <bcoudurier> I didn't play 12
[08:39:19] <Dark_Shikari> kshishkov: well, some are more animated than others.
[08:39:23] <lu_zero> 5 and 6 are fun
[08:39:25] <bcoudurier> heard game play sucked
[08:39:30] <lu_zero> bcoudurier: nah
[08:39:37] <lu_zero> the gameplay is fine
[08:39:39] <elenril> 12 is a jrpg trying to be a western rpg
[08:39:42] <bcoudurier> 7 had an awesome scenario
[08:39:45] <elenril> and failing at that
[08:39:49] <lu_zero> and the game isn't that bad
[08:40:01] <lu_zero> just feel like wow
[08:40:21] <Yuvi> I liked 9 for some reason, I think I'm pretty alone there
[08:40:24] <bcoudurier> anyway I'm going to bed guys
[08:40:37] <bcoudurier> humm 9 was decent
[08:40:37] <lu_zero> 9 was better than 8
[08:40:43] <lu_zero> bcoudurier: nite
[08:40:53] <bcoudurier> well in the 8, we had the first damage > 9999 with orbital
[08:41:02] <bcoudurier> that was cool ;)
[08:41:06] <lu_zero> pff
[08:41:16] <lu_zero> that reminds me 10
[08:41:21] <Yuvi> 8 had the great idea of scaling all encounters by level
[08:41:27] <Dark_Shikari> like oblivion
[08:41:28] <KotH> lu_zero: ah.. these are not earthquake monitoring devices, but earth movement monitoring devices
[08:41:43] <lu_zero> KotH: yes, that one =)
[08:41:46] <elenril> 8 had the great idea of not having to grind
[08:41:56] <KotH> lu_zero: to measure the movements of the ground in high mountains using gps... with a resolution of 5mm ^^'
[08:41:56] <lu_zero> elenril: uh?
[08:41:59] <Dark_Shikari> imagine if final fantasy had no random encounters.
[08:42:00] <lu_zero> _not_ having
[08:42:00] <Dark_Shikari> =p
[08:42:03] <bcoudurier> 8 was too easy
[08:42:08] <bcoudurier> you'd put 99 dark matter on your weapon
[08:42:21] <KotH> lu_zero: hw is mostly designed, being in production now... software is SEP :)
[08:42:23] <lu_zero> Dark_Shikari: Chrono serie
[08:42:23] <elenril> that's good
[08:42:32] <lu_zero> KotH: nice =)
[08:42:35] <Dark_Shikari> lu_zero: yes, remember when jrpgs were actually good?
[08:42:36] <elenril> combat in jrpgs is boring and pointless
[08:42:38] <Dark_Shikari> chrono trigger?
[08:42:44] <lu_zero> cross
[08:42:51] <Yuvi> cross was ugh
[08:42:51] <bcoudurier> but the card game was fun
[08:42:54] <Dark_Shikari> elenril: Except for the rare good boss battle.
[08:43:02] <lu_zero> Yuvi: compared to trigger yes
[08:43:19] <astrange> tales of * have a good battle system
[08:43:20] <bcoudurier> anyway I'm off this time
[08:43:22] <bcoudurier> good night
[08:43:33] <KotH> lu_zero: now i'm back to coding an usb device stack ^^'
[08:43:35] <astrange> actually most games would be improved if all their systems were replaced with tales of vesperia
[08:43:38] <lu_zero> ouch
[08:43:41] <Dark_Shikari> lol
[08:43:42] <lu_zero> usb-3
[08:43:45] <lu_zero> ?
[08:43:47] <Dark_Shikari> haven't played tales; what's it do right
[08:43:47] <Dark_Shikari> ?
[08:43:56] <lu_zero> astrange: I'll try them
[08:43:58] * elenril thinks all jrpgs would be improved if they were remade as VNs
[08:44:03] <Dark_Shikari> elenril: wrong
[08:44:09] <Dark_Shikari> a lot of JRPGs have shit story
[08:44:14] <Yuvi> hm, I haven't played a tales since phantasia
[08:44:15] <lu_zero> right now in my list I want to try Persona *
[08:44:16] <Dark_Shikari> VNs rely entirely on storytelling, because they're books
[08:44:20] <elenril> Dark_Shikari: so do Vns
[08:44:22] <Dark_Shikari> so if the story is crap, there's nothing left
[08:44:28] <elenril> most Vns are crap
[08:44:33] <Dark_Shikari> that's not what I mean
[08:44:36] <KotH> lu_zero: btw: diego seems to be online... at least he's commiting lots of stuff
[08:44:52] <Dark_Shikari> Most games suck, but every single game has some focus on gameplay
[08:44:55] <astrange> it's 3d/realtime with attack combos and the characters have varied combat styles
[08:44:57] <lu_zero> he might end up in Torino next week
[08:45:00] <elenril> Dark_Shikari: well if the story is crap, then combat won't save it
[08:45:01] <Dark_Shikari> that is, if the game sucks, the gameplay sucks
[08:45:04] <kshishkov> elenril: how many VNs have you tried?
[08:45:05] <Dark_Shikari> same with a book
[08:45:09] <Dark_Shikari> in a book, if the story sucks, the book sucks
[08:45:15] <Dark_Shikari> but there are good games with bad story
[08:45:19] <elenril> gamplay in jrpgs sucks by design
[08:45:24] <Dark_Shikari> i.e. gameplay makes the game, story makes the bookk
[08:45:27] <lu_zero> two games that I found quite interesting were vagrant story and parasite eve
[08:45:30] <Dark_Shikari> so... conversion doens't always work out.
[08:45:31] <elenril> kshishkov: ~5 i think
[08:45:31] <lu_zero> (2)
[08:45:31] <Yuvi> do you actually get to controll all the characters or does it give you a crap AI like star oceans?
[08:45:45] <Dark_Shikari> astrange: 3d/realtime with attack combos...
[08:45:47] <Dark_Shikari> sounds like wow
[08:45:47] <KotH> lu_zero: nope, just a full speed, usb2.0 stack. there are no usb3 capable embedded devices yet... actualy there are still very few high speed capable ones
[08:45:58] <kshishkov> elenril: what're their names?
[08:46:00] <lu_zero> I see
[08:46:27] <astrange> you can switch between party characters to control, the rest get ai (or you can get someone else to control them)
[08:46:39] <Dark_Shikari> dragon age?
[08:46:46] <astrange> and attacks are mapped to buttons rather than constant pauses to find a radial menu like dragon age
[08:46:50] <elenril> kshishkov: ever17, remember11, fate/stay night, tsukihime, umineko, planetarian
[08:47:13] <astrange> plus the damage is tuned better so non-boss fights are interesting for a while
[08:47:13] <Dark_Shikari> that reminds me, I should go and read remember11 for real sometime
[08:47:15] <kshishkov> elenril: ok, when I'll finally try VNs, I'll avoid those
[08:47:15] <Dark_Shikari> then again, it kept crashing
[08:47:18] <Dark_Shikari> kshishkov: lol
[08:47:23] * elenril shoots kshishkov 
[08:47:29] <Dark_Shikari> many of those on the list are like... hte best ones ever >_>
[08:47:35] * kshishkov resists the damae
[08:47:35] <astrange> and the final boss is a white guy whose secret form is a black guy
[08:47:42] <Dark_Shikari> LOL
[08:50:22] <Dark_Shikari> damn, a lot of VNs I should play
[08:50:26] <Dark_Shikari> a ton of translated stuff came out recently
[08:50:40] <Dark_Shikari> and more stuff about to come out
[08:50:54] <Dark_Shikari> s/play/read
[08:51:37] <Dark_Shikari> elenril: so, how far are you in sc2
[08:51:43] <peloverde> Assets/Textures/cinematic_thedream.ogv shows a bunch of artifacting
[08:52:02] <kshishkov> Dark_Shikari: so, what's your backlog of Touhou VNs?
[08:52:42] <Dark_Shikari> kshishkov: there are no translated touhou VNs
[08:52:56] <peloverde> I'm about 8 missions in
[08:53:05] <Dark_Shikari> peloverde: snape kills kerrigan with dumbledore
[08:53:16] <kshishkov> Dark_Shikari: so? that means nothing was lost in translation.
[08:53:23] <peloverde> I accidentally watched the wrong cutscene a minute ago :(
[08:54:05] <Dark_Shikari> warning: villains carry pockets full of idiot balls all the way through.
[08:54:15] <Dark_Shikari> and almost every mission name is a pop culture reference
[08:56:18] <peloverde> So far I'm regretting having chosen normal, but maybe the difficulty will ramp up toward the end of the campaign like sc1/war3
[08:56:28] <Dark_Shikari> I chose hard.  it wasn't too hard
[08:56:35] <Dark_Shikari> there were only a couple missions where I ever had to reload
[08:56:48] <peloverde> I chose easy because I spent most of the beta in copper/bronze
[08:57:04] <peloverde> err normal, not easy
[08:57:35] <Dark_Shikari> the last mission is a bitch if you don't pay attention to the advice given to you on the loading screen (kill the bloody nydus worms)
[08:57:46] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: stefano * r24569 /trunk/ (libavfilter/Makefile configure):
[08:57:46] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: Remove reference to the unexisting movie filter and the corresponding
[08:57:46] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: useless --enable-avfilter-lavf option.
[08:57:46] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: stefano * r24570 /trunk/libavfilter/Makefile:
[08:57:46] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: Require libswscale only if the scale filter is used.
[08:57:47] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: Although with several limitations, lavfi can be compiled and used
[08:57:48] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: without the scale filter.
[08:57:49] <Dark_Shikari> since in the campaign, unlike in multiplayer, they are infinite unit-spawners
[08:57:52] <Dark_Shikari> it's really annoying
[08:57:55] <Dark_Shikari> because I hate infinite unit-spawning
[08:58:23] <kshishkov> good for zergs
[08:59:22] <elenril> Dark_Shikari: i'm not playing it
[08:59:33] <elenril> no time+my laptop wouldn't handle it
[09:00:14] * kshishkov donates Gdium to elenril
[09:00:15] <Dark_Shikari> yes you do have time
[09:00:16] <Dark_Shikari> make time
[09:00:24] <elenril> soon
[09:00:30] <elenril> when i finish my bc paper
[09:01:18] <funman> sc1 > *
[09:01:58] <mru> that looks like a css selector
[09:02:53] <kshishkov> it may work in some shell too
[09:03:28] <mru> bash: *: ambiguous redirect
[09:03:31] <Dark_Shikari> kshishkov: prefetcht0 [rv40 memories]
[09:03:38] <Gumboot> Urgh... 17th window... this won't do.
[09:04:03] <Gumboot> Dark_Shikari: what does the t0 suffix do?
[09:04:13] <Dark_Shikari> prefetch to lowest level cache
[09:04:14] <funman> [ $starcraft -gt $1 ] || kernel_panic
[09:04:39] <kshishkov> Dark_Shikari: I'm not into x86 SIMD much
[09:04:52] <mru> kernel_panic: command not found
[09:05:00] <Dark_Shikari> kshishkov: prefetch isn't simd.
[09:05:01] <mru> kshishkov: that's not simd
[09:05:02] <av500> poke 1,0
[09:05:19] <kshishkov> mru: but usually make sense with it
[09:05:30] <mru> prefetch always makes sense
[09:05:53] <funman> there's no postfetch ?
[09:05:54] <mru> although hw speculative prefetchers are getting pretty good
[09:06:11] <mru> funman: that would be blocking caches
[09:06:16] <mru> ~curse blocking caches
[09:06:17] <kshishkov> Dark_Shikari: okay, I flushed that cache anyway
[09:06:32] <funman> it would be good for benchmarking
[09:06:34] <Gumboot> kshishkov: I got stuffed back in the RV40 cage and while I was in there I found my old list of bug workarounds, and I wanted to see if they were on your list.  Keep in mind, though, that I'm NDA-ed and I'll have to go and re-read the Ts and the Cs to see if I can share.
[09:06:54] <Gumboot> s/workarounds/emulations/
[09:07:28] <kshishkov> wonderful!
[09:07:54] <Gumboot> Shall I repeat the term "NDA", here?  It's not that wonderful.
[09:08:12] <kshishkov> I wonder if there were special clause to prevent devs disclosing that codec sucks?
[09:08:25] <Gumboot> Ooh... I hope not.  I might be in trouble already.
[09:08:30] <funman> NSDA
[09:09:00] <av500> godwi
[09:09:02] <kshishkov> Gumboot: I suspect I know most about it already
[09:09:53] <Gumboot> There's some preprocessor stuff that reveals intentions that might change your perceptions a little.
[09:10:24] <Gumboot> Anyway, do you have a list of bug emulations?
[09:10:42] <av500> yes, but only under NDA
[09:10:47] <kshishkov> yes, it's the whole decoder :)
[09:10:53] <av500> pssst
[09:11:29] <mru> people take NDAs far too seriously
[09:11:37] * kshishkov can show where his specs are stored. In nice .so format
[09:11:50] <merbzt1> ohh, binary specs
[09:11:53] <merbzt1> best there is
[09:12:15] * funman wish he had specs in elf format
[09:12:26] <merbzt1> funman: for what ?
[09:12:43] <funman> rockbox drivers
[09:13:47] <KotH> http://lwn.net/Articles/397422/ <- refreshing article on academics vs real world
[09:14:12] <mru> 408 Subscription required
[09:14:26] <lu_zero> how refreshing?
[09:14:38] <janneg> http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/397422/d283e1959b4592db/
[09:14:38] <kshishkov> Gumboot, your name reminds me of people who wrote RV3/4 (e.g. Chief Developer Gumby)
[09:15:36] <Gumboot> Nope, not me at all.
[09:15:53] <kshishkov> of course not you, you're too intelligent
[09:16:29] <kshishkov> but you should have heard of Gumbies
[09:16:30] <Gumboot> I just did a porting job on the reference code, but I had to do a lot of bug emulation on the way through because I need more substantial optimisations than just replacing the leaf nodes with assembly.
[09:16:47] <kshishkov> proting to what?
[09:16:53] <Gumboot> BCM2727 originally.
[09:17:23] <kshishkov> ah, go on
[09:17:57] <Gumboot> With 16-way SIMD you don't want to be doing leaf-node optimisations on 4-pixel edge functions all the time, so you have to rewrite the calling functions.
[09:18:15] <kshishkov> indeed
[09:19:29] <Gumboot> Then you find that it doesn't work anymore, and so you have to and do more advanced work to emulate what appear to be copy-and-paste errors.
[09:19:54] <mru> like the qpel duplicated position
[09:20:22] <Gumboot> That one's in the spec.
[09:20:31] <mru> there's a spec?
[09:20:59] <Gumboot> The spec is actually on a public https location, but I don't know if I'm allowed to share that address.
[09:21:13] <kshishkov> Gumboot: if it's public - then yes
[09:21:41] <Gumboot> Not worth my job.
[09:21:53] <mru> geeez, some people are paranoid
[09:21:59] <Gumboot> (not that it's a fantastic job, mind, but general professionalism and all that)
[09:22:00] <kshishkov> share it in private
[09:22:10] <Gumboot> Well now if there's a leak I get the blame anyway!
[09:22:24] <kshishkov> anyway, my decoder is bitexact on I and P-frames
[09:22:43] <mru> Gumboot: do you really think anyone will 1) notice or 2) care?
[09:22:51] <kshishkov> for B-frames it lacks weighted prediction and maybe loop filter is incorrect
[09:22:52] <Yuvi> wonder if this spec is googleable if you knew the right keywords
[09:23:09] <Gumboot> I tried, and it turned out to not be.  Unless I didn't know the right words.
[09:24:52] <kshishkov> okay, what can you say anyway?
[09:25:51] <Gumboot> I guess I can say that the QP doesn't vary in any encoder, now or future, and that leads to a lot of optimisation.
[09:26:47] <kshishkov> heh, so when I used DQUANT appearance as error condition was right :)
[09:27:09] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: mstorsjo * r24571 /trunk/libavformat/rtsp.c: rtsp: Move the definition of SDP_MAX_SIZE up, use it in the RTSP muxer, too
[09:27:24] <Gumboot> But really I was just wondering if there's a list of observed deviations-from-the-obvious that I can compare mine to.
[09:27:42] <Gumboot> Aside from the well-known bottom-right qpel filter.
[09:27:52] <kshishkov> it's hard to say so - we don't have spec and it was written with deviations in mind
[09:28:14] <kshishkov> different rounding constant in MC is also in spec, I presume
[09:28:21] <kshishkov> *constants
[09:28:48] <Gumboot> I didn't actually bother to check.  It was in the comments in the reference.
[09:29:11] <kshishkov> my reference had no comments
[09:29:23] <mru> I'm sure you had ample comments about it
[09:29:36] <kshishkov> no, I self-censor myself
[09:29:56] * mru hopes kshishkov doesn't self-censor others
[09:30:12] <kshishkov> of course not, by definition
[09:30:32] <Gumboot> No, not ample.  They weren't so big and flashy that I noticed them within half an hour of trying to figure out where I'd gone wrong.
[09:30:36] <mru> so 'myself' was redundant
[09:31:22] <kshishkov> mru: maybe. Me is no good at English language
[09:31:46] <kshishkov> Gumboot: I hope you had fun with loop filter
[09:32:09] <Gumboot> At least half of my development effort went into it.
[09:32:20] <Gumboot> Maybe 2/3.
[09:32:42] <merbzt1> who are buying rv40 decoders ?
[09:32:47] <Gumboot> NFI.
[09:32:49] <kshishkov> Chinese?
[09:32:52] <mru> merbzt1: china
[09:33:24] <kshishkov> just look at any good tracker - they still release stuff in .rmvb
[09:33:29] <Gumboot> When I'm rich I might start a company called NFI.  Maybe I'll get business by default.
[09:33:55] <av500> merbzt1: all chinese p2p content is still rv
[09:34:03] <av500> s/all/most/
[09:34:19] <merbzt1> ok that makes it more understandable
[09:34:29] <merbzt1> but why do they encode in that format
[09:34:35] <merbzt1> the tools must be horrible
[09:34:36] <av500> nobody knows
[09:34:42] <av500> even real does not know
[09:34:44] <kshishkov> misterious Eastern souls
[09:34:47] <av500> we asked them
[09:34:54] <kshishkov> (from German "Das Mist")
[09:34:55] <merbzt1> :)
[09:35:16] <av500> real guesses that at some point in time, rv producer was an ok sw and that stuck
[09:35:31] <av500> cargo cult from then on
[09:36:08] <mru> more likely sw was crap, someone released a few popular titles with it anyway, and there was cargo cult
[09:36:17] <av500> mru: could well be
[09:36:38] <Yuvi> one explanation I heard was that at the bitrates the chinese use (think 50-100 MB per 20 min show) rv40 looked the best
[09:36:38] <Yuvi> this was in the window between real releasing it and x264 becoming good
[09:37:26] <Gumboot> I think the encoding tools are public, aren't they?
[09:37:32] <Gumboot> Real Producer, or something like that.
[09:37:55] <Gumboot> With its confusing ..umm.. 'recipe-based' command line, or whatever it is.
[09:37:56] <kshishkov> Yuvi: maybe it was good for anime - 4x4 blocks and such
[09:37:58] <Gumboot> I think it's recipes.
[09:38:25] <Gumboot> I don't think China has much anime, does it?  They seem to be all about soaps and Hollywood movies.
[09:38:40] <Yuvi> kshishkov: was real ever widely used for english anime after the dialup days?
[09:38:55] <av500> the samples I have show a strong interest in hally pottel as well
[09:39:54] <kshishkov> Yuvi: a good question to ask for guy who had nothing to do with neither English or anime in dialup days
[09:39:55] <Yuvi> dunno, I doubt anime drove codec choice in china unlike america
[09:40:14] <kshishkov> but IIRC cartoons were encoded into .rm in Russia as well
[09:40:29] <Yuvi> france was a pocket for real too for a while
[09:40:37] <mru> imo cartoons are still cartoons, even if in japanese
[09:40:39] <kshishkov> French are perverts anyway
[09:41:22] <kshishkov> mru: you're likely haven't seen Soviet cartoons
[09:41:40] <av500> in soviet russia, cartoon see you
[09:42:12] <KotH> kshishkov: can you get us some examples?
[09:42:48] <kshishkov> KotH: it's all on YouTube
[09:44:30] <KotH> kshishkov: youtube lacks quality and archival features
[09:44:36] <Gumboot> I think that China uses Real because China likes adware.
[09:44:49] <Gumboot> All the popular Chinese software seems to be adware.
[09:45:44] <Gumboot> If you want a sharp increase in your userbase, turn it into adware.  You lose everyone in the rest of the world, but pick up the whole of China.
[09:47:36] <mru> hmm, ffads
[09:48:21] <kshishkov> KotH: original quality is not good either. For example, I don't remember any Soviet cartoon with bright colours
[09:48:57] <av500> they would have been unrealistic...
[09:53:23] <KotH> kshishkov: hmm...
[09:53:56] <KotH> kshishkov: do you have any recomendations?
[09:54:55] <KotH> kshishkov: i loved the czech children series back when i was small. they were refreshingly different (ie cared more about a consistent story plot than fancy effects)
[09:55:16] <kshishkov> KotH: I remember only one of those - with little mole
[09:55:24] <KotH> hmm.. or were they polnish?... dont remember
[09:55:55] <KotH> kshishkov: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_%28Zden%C4%9Bk_Miler_character%29 ?
[09:56:09] <kshishkov> KotH: yes, exactly
[09:56:44] <KotH> eh..
[09:56:59] <KotH> that one was and is still quite famous in the german speaking area
[09:57:04] <KotH> (probably even wider)
[09:58:18] <kshishkov> still, you'd better ask thresh
[09:58:41] <av500> KotH: I have the DVD :)
[09:59:33] <thresh> kshishkov: about?
[09:59:41] <thresh> (not following, just came back from lunch)
[09:59:44] <kshishkov> Soviet cartoons
[09:59:54] <thresh> they suck mostly
[10:00:11] <kshishkov> а "Ёжик в тумане"?
[10:00:24] <thresh> that's an exception that proves the rule
[10:00:33] <thresh> that, and 'winnie-the-pooh'
[10:00:49] * Rathann|work remember watching the one about the woolf and a rabbit when he was little
[10:00:58] <merbzt1> the rabbit and the wolf then ?
[10:00:59] <Rathann|work> *remembers
[10:01:03] <kshishkov> thresh: а если я не люблю наркоманские мультики? Тогда только Винни-пух
[10:01:22] <Rathann|work> meh, I can't spell today
[10:01:22] <merbzt1> what rathann said
[10:01:34] <thresh> kshishkov: you would enjoy 'Щас спою' then
[10:01:38] <kshishkov> merbzt1: Tom and Jerry clone for Soviet Union in essence
[10:02:15] <Rathann|work> the czech(oslovakian?) "neigbours" were hilarious
[10:02:20] <thresh> Rathann|work: it's called 'Nu pogodi'
[10:02:35] <Rathann|work> ah yes, sounds familiar
[10:04:04] <kshishkov> Rathann|work: yes, Soviet stuff was very popular in Warsaw pact countries. Especially Soviet army
[10:30:35] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: stefano * r24572 /trunk/MAINTAINERS: Add my GPG fingerprint and add myself as ffprobe.c maintainer.
[10:36:42] <Gumboot> Is that Tom and Jerry with political overtones one might infer from the character names?  Or just a cat and a mouse doing cat and mouse stuff?
[10:37:18] <Gumboot> (yes, you would have to be one of those student types who tries too hard to find extra layers of meaning in everything, but there are plenty of those)
[10:48:07] <kshishkov> everything targeting children made in Soviet Union was either with obvious ideological component, idiotic or made on drugs
[10:48:43] <Gumboot> What about all three?  I'd watch it if it had all three.
[10:48:43] * kshishkov preferred books from foreign authors in his childhood, especially Astrid Lindgren
[10:49:31] <thresh> I wouldnt say 'nu pogodi' was of any ideology or idiocy
[10:49:44] <thresh> rather ironic on 'stagnation' period
[11:03:33] <Gumboot> kshishkov: Did you find test content for RPR, by the way?
[11:04:25] <kshishkov> Gumboot - lots of it
[11:05:00] <kshishkov> Chinese often encode group logo in one resolution and the rest of file in another one
[11:05:41] <Gumboot> Was there actually any resizing you had to do?  There was a bunch of documentation and code for it, but when I actually ran RPR streams, it never seemed to get called.
[11:06:27] <kshishkov> yes, of course
[11:06:38] <Gumboot> Hm.
[11:06:45] <Gumboot> Maybe I need to see better test streams.
[11:06:50] <Gumboot> Got any links?
[11:07:17] <kshishkov> just a moment, something should be on MPHQ
[11:07:54] <Gumboot> Most of what I did was just knocking down the worst part of th profile, but the rescaling never showed up.  I tried to set a breakpoint, but it never hot hit.
[11:08:16] <Gumboot> There's a _lot_ of never-executed code in the reference, though, so I just accepted it.
[11:09:07] <Gumboot> (that's why it's always a relief to find somebody saying that most of these features aren't actually supported -- because I could never see how the code was going to work with them)
[11:12:00] <kshishkov> what about samples in http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/real/anamorphic/ ?
[11:12:17] <kshishkov> or http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/real/size_change/
[11:13:12] <Compn> since we dont have rv specs, the only code created was based on samples...
[11:15:45] <Gumboot> I tested using the files in the rarvcode-tck subproject at helixcommunity.org.
[11:16:17] <Gumboot> The resolution changed, but all that resizing business seemed irrelevant.  Using their reference decoder things just blanked out during the resize.
[11:20:50] <kshishkov> well, I don't have access to the reference decoder either
[11:22:28] <merbzt> http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2010/07/26/collabora-multimedia-at-guadec/
[11:22:41] <Gumboot> What about Real Alternative?
[11:22:46] <Gumboot> Can that dump YUV?
[11:23:35] <kshishkov> dunno
[11:23:40] <kshishkov> I used MPlayer
[11:23:51] <Gumboot> Can that use the Real libraries?
[11:23:58] <kshishkov> (since FFmpeg still lacks binary codec loader)
[11:24:02] <kshishkov> of course
[11:24:26] <kshishkov> bbl
[11:24:54] <Gumboot> I should test that.  I don't know what the odds are on Real's on player library being compatible with their reference decoder.
[11:30:50] <Compn> what are you doing anyways Gumboot ?
[11:31:03] * Compn reads log
[11:31:45] <Vitor1001> Weird, my first try of writing YASM code assemble but does not link.
[11:32:06] <Vitor1001> Errors: http://ffmpeg.pastebin.com/rBGksr9R
[11:33:18] <Gumboot> Compn: Not a lot, now.  I'm done with my Real Video redux; but it made me think that maybe I should check my bug emulation against ffmpeg's bug emulation to see that I haven't missed anything.
[11:33:26] <Compn> ah
[11:33:59] <Gumboot> Actually, I'll be running in circles doing conformance testing on a bunch of other codecs and things like that.  Just as soon as I get off my arse and go to work.
[11:34:26] <Compn> some kind of hardware/mobile player ?
[11:37:18] * Compn googles for some rv40 spec page
[11:38:57] <Gumboot> Good luck!
[11:38:59] <Vitor1001> ping Dark_Shikari
[11:39:27] <Compn> RV9DecoderExternalSpecificationv15
[11:39:30] <Compn> hmmm
[11:39:38] <Gumboot> Holy crap.  You found one?
[11:39:46] <Compn> well, lets not count them chickens yet
[11:39:49] * Compn waits for webpage to load
[11:40:48] <Gumboot> Current version is 18.
[11:40:54] <Gumboot> Or 1.8, or whatever.
[11:41:40] <Gumboot> So what you found is in China, then, eh?
[11:41:46] <Compn> http://www.docin.com/p-57120909.html
[11:41:53] <Compn> probably
[11:41:58] <Compn> flash based viewer
[11:42:09] <Compn> i'll try to find 1.8 now that i know that bit of information
[11:42:28] <Gumboot> I already searched.  There's nothing there.
[11:42:36] <Gumboot> Well, I say that.  It shows my complete faith in Google, doesn't it.
[11:43:30] <Gumboot> Anyway, my project is just a port to a chip.  The chip normally goes in mobile phones, but people have been known to make other devices withi t.
[11:43:40] <Gumboot> But if I knew what anybody was making with it, I wouldn't be able to tell you.
[11:43:51] <Gumboot> It normally shows up in the teardowns.
[11:44:04] <Vitor1001> If anyone is looking at my problem, I've just fixed it, was missing a SECTION_RODATA.
[11:46:17] <Compn> Gumboot : ah, well i'm just asking dumb questions anyways, you probably shouldnt tell me anything :)
[11:46:39] * _av500_ is on train to ffcon(steam train work group)
[11:47:24] <funman> are you going to optimize steam?
[11:47:34] <jai> funman: is that even possible?
[11:48:09] <funman> perhaps by applying transforms to the water molecules, who knows
[11:48:17] <jai> hmm, i have never written any asm for lavc till now
[11:48:19] <jai> shame on me
[11:48:44] <funman> write some c, build with gcc -S, pretend you have written it :o)
[11:49:02] <jai> and get flamed to a crisp ;)
[11:52:35] <cartman> "When disassembling, you can detect C++ code by the tons of do-nothing wrappers"
[11:52:37] <cartman> nice one ha
[12:09:18] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: michael * r24573 /trunk/libavutil/log.c: Make sure "Last message repeated" is printed.
[12:29:39] <Compn> soo
[12:29:47] <Compn> whats next on the agenda today
[12:30:09] <kshishkov> VP7 for av500
[12:30:17] <kshishkov> BINKb for pross-au
[12:30:22] <kshishkov> and pony for Diego
[12:30:23] <mru> vp7.de
[12:30:55] <_av500_> kshishkov: pony for my daughter too
[12:31:34] <kshishkov> _av500_: steal it from Diego
[12:32:22] <_av500_> easy, all diegos are small
[12:32:53] <cartman> this is Don-Diego
[12:34:13] <kshishkov> cartman: have you ever seen that Diego? he's small
[12:34:25] <cartman> nah :)
[12:34:29] <cartman> didn't see him
[12:34:48] <_av500_> see, so small :)
[12:38:00] <KotH> cartman: have you ever seen av500? he is a fucking giant!
[12:38:18] <cartman> I guessed from the 500 part
[12:38:18] <cartman> :P
[12:38:57] <kshishkov> KotH: are you crazy? he got rather normal dimensions
[12:46:05] <KotH> kshishkov: i've heard that you are also one of those human phalic symbols
[12:47:50] * kshishkov sends av500 to deal with KotH
[12:48:18] * KotH takes out some swiss chocolate to deal with av500 
[12:50:41] * kshishkov points out that KotH is poor and cannot afford enough chocolate to deal with av500
[12:50:58] <Compn> btw i went to ikea store the other day
[12:51:08] <Compn> and bought 3 bags of those gummy kars
[12:51:21] <Compn> addicting candy
[12:51:45] <Compn> did KotH send me a bag of those years ago? hmm
[12:52:05] <Compn> or was that my swedish friend
[12:54:29] <KotH> that must have been a swedish friend
[12:54:35] <KotH> i would have send you chocolate cars
[12:54:58] <KotH> kshishkov: that chocolate goes on company expenses :)
[12:55:03] <mru> Compn: "ahlgrens bilar" ?
[12:55:16] <spaam> Ahlgrens bilar <3
[12:55:46] <kshishkov> KotH: and disclose my address to you? no way!
[12:56:32] * kshishkov has missed the chance to taste Swedish sweets (except lingonsylt)
[12:56:47] <mru> you didn't miss much
[12:56:53] <KotH> kshishkov: i already know where you work. figuring out the rest is easy
[12:59:21] <Compn>  mru : yes, ahlgrens bilar
[12:59:24] * Compn had to find the bag
[12:59:49] <Compn> it was hiding from me
[13:00:05] <mru> wonder why...
[13:06:00] <KotH> Ahlgrens [...] founded [..] as a store for paint and wallpaper [...]
[13:06:08] <KotH> interesting
[13:06:11] <KotH> sounds like nokia
[13:14:05] <pJok> kshishkov, i could just mail you some?
[13:16:23] <kshishkov> in theory - yes
[13:16:46] * kshishkov would prefer Swedish cheese though
[13:17:15] <spaam> kshishkov: which one ? :D
[13:19:04] <kshishkov> spaam: Vasterbotten and Greve
[13:34:46] <Compn> kshishkov : btw, merbzt = ben, i was looking for merbanan haha ;\
[13:35:20] <kshishkov> what's the difference?
[13:37:22] <Compn> i dont think there is one, i just forgot the alt nick
[13:42:18] <jai> worst case, people will think i'm stu
[13:42:29] <jai> err, wrong window
[13:43:28] <BBB> j0sh: how do you feel about adding a MJPEG RTP depacketizer/packetizer somewhere later?
[13:54:48] <KotH> jai: dont worry, we already know that you're stupid ;->
[13:59:22] <jai> KotH: that was about using java to teach an operating systems course :)
[14:01:16] <kshishkov> jai: first five words are enough
[14:27:04] <KotH> kshishkov: you mean the fith word was enough
[15:03:58] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: michael * r24574 /trunk/tools/patcheck: Warn about "/** text" comments.
[15:08:06] <_av500_> mru: I have some nice hd demos on omap3 :)
[15:08:21] <_av500_> (in the room next door)
[15:12:43] * cartman sniffs and kicks his ARM11 device
[15:59:40] <Dark_Shikari> Vitor1001: what
[16:00:03] <Vitor1001> Dark_Shikari: Nevermind, was fighting with yasm for the first time
[16:00:24] <Vitor1001> Dark_Shikari: I should not forget SECTION_RODATA, or else it will not link :p
[16:00:48] <Vitor1001> Dark_Shikari: But now patch is ready and posted to -devel :D
[16:01:27] <Honoome> Vitor1001: was that the last use of x86/mmx.h?
[16:01:31] <Vitor1001> Dark_Shikari: Thanks anyway
[16:01:34] <lu_zero> hm
[16:01:44] <lu_zero> why api-example.c is lgpl and not mit?
[16:01:53] <lu_zero> it covers quite a basic usage
[16:01:55] <Dark_Shikari> good point.  it should really be MIT
[16:02:05] <Vitor1001> Honoome: libavcodec/x86/idct_mmx.c
[16:02:12] <lu_zero> who has copyright on it?
[16:02:14] <Honoome> Vitor1001: shit then :P
[16:02:28] <Vitor1001> mostly, nobody uses it
[16:04:58] <kshishkov> Vitor1001: no good news yet
[16:05:37] <Vitor1001> Well, we could copy-and-paste mmx.h to the top of idct_mmx.c
[16:06:04] <Vitor1001> BTW, idct_mmx.c is GPL-only
[16:28:09] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: reimar * r24575 /trunk/libavformat/udp.c:
[16:28:09] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: Check for udp_set_remote_url error.
[16:28:09] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: Fixes issue 1784 (hang with nonsense URL/no network available).
[16:50:40] <wbs> lu_zero: FWIW, the things I've made in api-example can be relicensed any way you want
[16:51:28] <spaam> beerware
[16:51:29] <spaam> <3
[16:51:53] <kierank> wtfbbq licence
[16:52:17] <spaam> does not exists :O
[16:52:24] <spaam> dont lie kierank :O
[16:52:29] <kierank> it does
[16:52:32] <kierank> i remember seeing it somewhere
[16:52:37] <kierank> and it wasn't gpl compatible
[16:54:19] <Dark_Shikari> you mean WTFPL
[16:56:14] <kierank> that's the one
[16:56:27] <Honoome> that's Hocevar's license
[16:56:44] <Honoome> and iirc it was gpl-compatible
[16:57:17] <Honoome> libcaca is relesed under that and xine uses it... and I think I did check all the license related to that, but siretart would know better since he maintained that for Debian (and they are much more anal about licenses that Gentoo would ever be, given we don't redistribute binaries)
[16:58:56] <elenril> put it under "good not evil" licence
[17:00:02] <Honoome> nah that _is_ gpl-incompatible :P
[17:00:36] * Honoome remembers a license for a package in some Debian external repository "Free to friends of America"
[17:00:47] <elenril> lol
[17:00:52] <Honoome> I had to forget installing the package
[17:01:00] <elenril> good not evil is teh ultimate trolling licence
[17:01:06] * KotH is a friend of america, but not of the us
[17:01:36] <Honoome> KotH: hah that would have been a witty response indeed... I guess I have no problem with Canada
[17:01:37] <Honoome> or Mexico
[17:02:13] <kierank> iirc you can offer copyright to the queen
[17:02:44] <elenril> brazil is evil though
[17:04:18] <Dark_Shikari> wtf
[17:04:24] <Dark_Shikari> ffmpeg is dropping the first frame when decoding my h264 files
[17:04:29] <Dark_Shikari> just... the default files out of x264
[17:04:37] <KotH> elenril: no, brazil is cool... they are about to outlaw all DRM that does restrict the freedom of fair use
[17:04:40] <lu_zero> wbs: given I'm just providing a thin wrapper around _encode and _decode I'll do something even simpler =)
[17:06:07] <elenril> KotH: inconceivable!
[17:06:27] <kierank> http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Strong-Web-Design.aspx
[17:41:06] <siretart> greetings from debconf10!
[18:00:13] <lu_zero> siretart: hi =)
[18:20:15] <Dark_Shikari> lol, reimar
[18:20:17] <Dark_Shikari> At least it is now documented what this string means. However, if
[18:20:18] <Dark_Shikari> next time someone suggests removing an entry and just adjust the
[18:20:18] <Dark_Shikari> documented API instead of bumping major I will seriously consider
[18:20:18] <Dark_Shikari> eating them alive - you have been warned.
[18:28:39] <peloverde> I hate hate hate CSS
[18:29:32] <BBB> omg one moment he does AAC and then he complains about css
[18:29:42] <BBB> something is seriously wrong there
[18:29:48] <BBB> peloverde: will you go to ovc?
[18:29:49] <peloverde> I'm trying to do a blog post and their are diagrams
[18:29:53] <j0sh> css == cascading style sheets?
[18:29:55] <peloverde> Yes I'm going to OVC
[18:29:57] <BBB> you have a blog?
[18:30:00] <peloverde> yes j0sh
[18:30:09] <peloverde> Yes I have a newish blog
[18:30:47] <j0sh> i don't think anyone likes css. its not intuitive at all
[18:30:53] <BBB> omg yuvi was a x264 soc student
[18:30:59] <BBB> this is so funny
[18:31:03] <BBB> peloverde: where's your blog?
[18:31:07] <Dark_Shikari> BBB: welcome to last year
[18:31:18] <BBB> I never pay attention :-p
[18:31:24] <peloverde> http://spectralhole.blogspot.com
[18:32:24] <BBB> http://blog.case.edu/ajc30/free_software/index.html is no longer used?
[18:32:25] <peloverde> Yuvi being x264 soc is part of the Reddit x264-vp8 conspiracy
[18:32:31] <Dark_Shikari> obviously
[18:32:57] <peloverde> yeah, that blog was from when I was is school quite a few years back now
[18:59:32] <elenril> peloverde: mid/side is still broken?
[19:01:24] <peloverde> yes
[19:02:23] <elenril> :(
[19:09:45] <Dark_Shikari> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XduXCp91_IA
[19:32:13] <astrange> 13:04 <@Dark_Shikari> ffmpeg is dropping the first frame when decoding my h264 files <- does -vsync 0 fix it?
[19:33:07] <Dark_Shikari> didn't try it.
[19:33:10] <Dark_Shikari> probably does.
[19:33:17] <Dark_Shikari> oh btw, what happens if you combine may_alias and restrict?
[19:34:42] <Dark_Shikari> I have an annoying problem in the x264 bitstream writer where the M32( output pointer ) = bswap( current data ); can potentially have output pointer alias anything
[19:34:45] <Dark_Shikari> even the bitstream struct itself
[19:34:51] <Dark_Shikari> and thus the compiler is forced to reload everything
[19:35:14] <astrange> never tried it
[19:35:22] <Dark_Shikari> i.e. which wins, restrict or may_alias
[19:38:41] <Dark_Shikari> also, what happens in C if
[19:38:43] <Dark_Shikari> I do
[19:38:46] <Dark_Shikari> int diff = a - b;
[19:38:49] <Dark_Shikari> where a is a uint8_t*
[19:38:51] <Dark_Shikari> and b is a uint32_t*?
[19:38:56] <Dark_Shikari> is diff measured in uint32_t or uint8_t?
[19:39:34] <merbanan> an
[19:40:02] <Dark_Shikari> ?
[19:41:12] <Dark_Shikari> ah.  compile error.
[19:41:45] <Vitor1001> Dark_Shikari: This is just plain unreadable, no mater what the compiler do.
[19:42:01] <Vitor1001> Dark_Shikari: One should not write code for people who have memorized the full C spec
[19:42:06] <Dark_Shikari> Vitor1001: er... I didn't mean that
[19:42:14] <Dark_Shikari> I just wondered what would happen if you subtracted two pointers of different sizes
[19:42:26] <Vitor1001> Ah, ok
[19:43:33] <Dark_Shikari> By C aliasing rules, can uint32_t *a alias int b; ?
[19:45:47] <Dark_Shikari> e.g. do unsigned ints alias signed ints
[19:47:54] <mt> stddev: 4251.63 PSNR: 23.76 bytes: 17973248/ 17977344  --- That's very far from being bit-exact isn't it ?
[19:51:02] <merbanan> mt: yes
[19:51:36] <merbanan> mt: you should get above 70 in psnr
[19:52:09] <Vitor1001> mt: If it is float based, look for stddev < 1.0
[19:52:09] <mt> hmm .. guess I shouldn't have relied on plots only :(
[19:52:59] <mt> it's fixed vs float
[19:53:00] <Vitor1001> mt: Be careful that some codecs insert random silence in the begining of the output
[19:53:32] <Vitor1001> mt: I plotted it is close, you should definitely get stddev < 1000
[19:53:59] <Vitor1001> a difference of 4000 will be visible no mater how you measure it
[19:54:58] <mt> Vitor1001:  Yeah there were visible differences .. I just thought that it's alright since it all lied in the order of 1e-3
[19:55:19] <Dark_Shikari> not even the same number of bytes
[19:55:20] <Vitor1001> mt: Still not compatible with stddev 4251
[19:55:42] <Vitor1001> mt: For ex:
[19:55:51] <Vitor1001> tests/tiny_psnr ffplay ffmpeg
[19:55:57] <Vitor1001> stddev:22611.53 PSNR: 17.24 MAXDIFF:65530 bytes:  6570632/  6542152
[19:56:22] <Vitor1001> Ok, 22 > 4, but gives an ide
[19:56:26] <Vitor1001> s/ide/idea/
[19:59:40] <merbanan> fate is broken on some platforms
[20:00:58] <Vitor1001> merbanan: fate is broken in all platforms that ran in less than 3 hours ago
[20:01:02] <Vitor1001> merbanan: no idea why
[20:05:50] <BBB> merbanan: some of those are gcc bugs
[20:05:57] <BBB> (according to mru, I asked him yesterday)
[20:15:30] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: siretart * r24576 /branches/ (19 files in 2 dirs):
[20:15:30] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: Backport AAC-HE v2 from trunk
[20:15:30] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: This patch has seen testing for a couple of weeks in ubuntu maverick and debian/experimental w/o negative feedback so far.
[20:19:31] <siretart> btw, debconf video team is going to provide footage in both theora and webm/vp8
[20:19:49] <kierank> :/
[20:19:54] <Dark_Shikari> WHAT ARE YOU DOING GCC.
[20:19:58] <Dark_Shikari> WHAAAAAAT.
[20:19:59] <Dark_Shikari>   483725:       8b 8c 24 80 00 00 00    mov    ecx,[esp+0x80]
[20:19:59] <Dark_Shikari>   48372c:       8b 81 c8 04 00 00       mov    eax,[ecx+0x4c8]
[20:19:59] <Dark_Shikari>   483732:       89 d9                   mov    ecx,ebx
[20:20:00] <Dark_Shikari>   483734:       8b 9c 24 80 00 00 00    mov    ebx,[esp+0x80]
[20:20:33] <roxfan> lol
[20:21:14] <roxfan> is is 'optimized'?
[20:21:17] <roxfan> *this
[20:21:26] <siretart> kierank: ?
[20:21:33] <kierank> theora and webm
[20:21:36] <kierank> why both?
[20:21:45] <thresh> yeah, screw both
[20:24:21] <Honoome> rather... can we declare Ogg dead?
[20:25:45] <Dark_Shikari> no, there's a vp8 mapping for ogg too
[20:25:55] <Dark_Shikari> and when we get working on that next-gen obmc codec
[20:26:01] <Dark_Shikari> xiph will insist on putting it in ogg
[20:26:22] <kierank> oh god
[20:26:31] <Honoome> Dark_Shikari: what's the _point_ of ogg?
[20:26:41] <kierank> xiph nih of course
[20:26:46] <Honoome> kierank: beside that
[20:27:07] <siretart> Honoome: it will take some time to get vp8/webm distributed and deployed. but I guess in one or two years, we might be able to ditch theora and provide vp8 only
[20:27:30] <kierank> because theora is so well deployed?
[20:27:43] <Honoome> siretart: I'm quite sure that it'll be quite more easily deployed in a few months than theora has ever been
[20:27:44] <Dark_Shikari> lol
[20:27:58] <siretart> I mean in stable linux distros
[20:28:04] <Honoome> siretart: that as well
[20:28:04] <Dark_Shikari> and guess what
[20:28:08] <Dark_Shikari> it still won't play on your ipad =p
[20:28:31] <siretart> true
[20:28:36] <Honoome> especially given that it's going to be _actually used_ by video services, given they have at least a basic userbase available
[20:28:38] <kierank> stable is basically a synonym for ancient in the linux packaging world
[20:28:46] <Honoome> kierank: talk for debian
[20:28:50] <kierank> </troll>
[20:29:29] <Dark_Shikari> kierank: not quite
[20:29:32] <Dark_Shikari> depends on the distro
[20:29:42] <Dark_Shikari> for gentoo, it means "we didn't fuck with it today"
[20:31:15] <Honoome> hey with rare exceptions (*cough* python *cough*) our stable system is decent
[20:37:57] <BBB> roundup is dead
[20:37:59] <BBB> lu_zero: help!
[20:38:20] <Dark_Shikari> fate is red too
[20:41:56] <Honoome> BBB: do you want me to track Luca down?
[20:49:52] <BBB> Honoome: yes
[20:50:46] <Honoome> gha he's probably sleeping ... his schedules are a bit off
[20:50:54] <Honoome> so he'll probably be around in the next three hours
[20:54:36] <BBB> Dark_Shikari: "Unknown option "--enable-avfilter-lavf".
[20:54:37] <BBB> See /home/fate/source/configure --help for available options."
[20:54:37] <BBB> well...
[20:54:57] <Dark_Shikari> lol
[20:55:35] <Honoome> I saw a bug related to that in gentoo bugzilla as well
[21:22:42] <_skal_paris_> yo le baptiste
[21:38:31] <bcoudurier> hey _skal_paris_
[21:38:41] <bcoudurier> il fait beau au pays ?
[21:56:20] <BBB> bcoudurier: will you come to ovc?
[22:01:24] <bcoudurier> yes I think
[22:08:22] <BBB> cool!
[22:12:41] <Compn> libmpdemux/demux_real.c:571:12: internal compiler error: Segmentation fault
[22:12:47] <Compn> ehe, poor guy on mplayer-cygwin
[22:14:13] <kierank> it's a compiler defence mechanism from real
[23:08:33] <kierank> lol michael
[23:09:08] <iive> ?
[23:09:25] <kierank> what is farrow interpolation?
[23:09:26] <kierank> this text in that link is pretty much crap. I can explain what fir is in 2
[23:09:26] <kierank> lines they drag it out over pages and diagrams that only make sense to someone
[23:09:26] <kierank> who knows already what the things are besides that the informations is
[23:09:26] <kierank> obviously incomplete.
[23:10:19] <iive> hehe.
[23:18:49] <CIA-92> ffmpeg: stefano * r24577 /trunk/ (doc/ffprobe-doc.texi ffprobe.c Changelog): Implement ffprobe -show_packets.
[23:51:36] <BBB> wbs: ping